Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

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Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Alyssa Tong-2
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Oleg Nenashev
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.

PR: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100
JEP:  <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc

Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Alyssa Tong-2
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Oleg Nenashev
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="7PeYADlZBgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">o.v.ne...@...> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.

PR: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100
JEP:  <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc

Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Alyssa Tong-2
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Oleg Nenashev
Hi Alyssa, thanks for the response!

Please find my comments below

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador

It would be great if Ambassadors still have opportunity to provide feedback and cast non-blocking votes to avoid bottlenecks.
E.g. we can say "66% of votes should be positive" or so.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged


 Does it mean yes/no? Or just "to be discussed"?

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

What is "general application process"?

Best regards,
Oleg




 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Alyssa Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Alyssa Tong-2
pls see embedded below:

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa, thanks for the response!

Please find my comments below

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador

It would be great if Ambassadors still have opportunity to provide feedback and cast non-blocking votes to avoid bottlenecks.
E.g. we can say "66% of votes should be positive" or so.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged


 Does it mean yes/no? Or just "to be discussed"?

AT: "Yes". I'll update the JEP accordingly.
 

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

What is "general application process"?

AT: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit  . I will get this application and write out the process in the JEP.


Best regards,
Oleg




 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Alyssa Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Oleg Nenashev
Thanks Alyssa!

The form looks great to me.
Looking forward to see the updated JEP.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 7:47:36 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
pls see embedded below:

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Oleg Nenashev <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="urotYJviAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">o.v.ne...@...> wrote:
Hi Alyssa, thanks for the response!

Please find my comments below

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador

It would be great if Ambassadors still have opportunity to provide feedback and cast non-blocking votes to avoid bottlenecks.
E.g. we can say "66% of votes should be positive" or so.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged


 Does it mean yes/no? Or just "to be discussed"?

AT: "Yes". I'll update the JEP accordingly.
 

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

What is "general application process"?

AT: <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit&#39;;return true;">https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit  . I will get this application and write out the process in the JEP.


Best regards,
Oleg




 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Alyssa Tong <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="urotYJviAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">alyt...@...> wrote:
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#open-questions" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;">Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#what-if-ambassadors-do-not-vote-in-good-faith-or-otherwise-act-to-exclude-candidates-on-personal-grounds" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23what-if-ambassadors-do-not-vote-in-good-faith-or-otherwise-act-to-exclude-candidates-on-personal-grounds\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNF_spZS4-2Nl1fdmOMZb7lHakUr-A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23what-if-ambassadors-do-not-vote-in-good-faith-or-otherwise-act-to-exclude-candidates-on-personal-grounds\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNF_spZS4-2Nl1fdmOMZb7lHakUr-A&#39;;return true;">What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#which-certifications-jenkins-ones-or-what" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23which-certifications-jenkins-ones-or-what\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGGUORmehLw8BEE--_IbhLFT07tag&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23which-certifications-jenkins-ones-or-what\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGGUORmehLw8BEE--_IbhLFT07tag&#39;;return true;">Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#use-the-term-jenkins-board-members-and-officers-instead-of-specific-list-of-back-vote-casters" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23use-the-term-jenkins-board-members-and-officers-instead-of-specific-list-of-back-vote-casters\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEoKlJabnVWS1sZFAketdEkfvhG3A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23use-the-term-jenkins-board-members-and-officers-instead-of-specific-list-of-back-vote-casters\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEoKlJabnVWS1sZFAketdEkfvhG3A&#39;;return true;">Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#how-are-potential-ambassadors-found-and-nominated" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23how-are-potential-ambassadors-found-and-nominated\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHIqFXYTDWdgMiSg02ss8qI0wEy1g&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23how-are-potential-ambassadors-found-and-nominated\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHIqFXYTDWdgMiSg02ss8qI0wEy1g&#39;;return true;">How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="urotYJviAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">o.v.ne...@...> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEF-DVCjy9Me40jCyMMT_U979J3fg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEF-DVCjy9Me40jCyMMT_U979J3fg&#39;;return true;">JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100#discussion_r186260812" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260812\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEVrG08RqiAbTwJH38MqsU2-65Esw&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260812\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEVrG08RqiAbTwJH38MqsU2-65Esw&#39;;return true;">comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100#discussion_r186260834" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260834\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEu0jzyxjhyaNmGK0m7_NkYd-nnkQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260834\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEu0jzyxjhyaNmGK0m7_NkYd-nnkQ&#39;;return true;">comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100#discussion_r186260844" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260844\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE45R3RhencHKDhZhQNPseL5_MCAg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260844\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE45R3RhencHKDhZhQNPseL5_MCAg&#39;;return true;">comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#open-questions" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;">Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.

PR: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100
JEP:  <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc

Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Liam Newman
Oleg, Alyssa: 

PR to update the JEP: https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/119/files


On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 11:00:29 AM UTC-7, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
Thanks Alyssa!

The form looks great to me.
Looking forward to see the updated JEP.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 7:47:36 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
pls see embedded below:

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa, thanks for the response!

Please find my comments below

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador

It would be great if Ambassadors still have opportunity to provide feedback and cast non-blocking votes to avoid bottlenecks.
E.g. we can say "66% of votes should be positive" or so.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged


 Does it mean yes/no? Or just "to be discussed"?

AT: "Yes". I'll update the JEP accordingly.
 

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

What is "general application process"?

AT: <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit&#39;;return true;">https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit  . I will get this application and write out the process in the JEP.


Best regards,
Oleg




 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Alyssa Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#open-questions" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;">Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#what-if-ambassadors-do-not-vote-in-good-faith-or-otherwise-act-to-exclude-candidates-on-personal-grounds" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23what-if-ambassadors-do-not-vote-in-good-faith-or-otherwise-act-to-exclude-candidates-on-personal-grounds\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNF_spZS4-2Nl1fdmOMZb7lHakUr-A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23what-if-ambassadors-do-not-vote-in-good-faith-or-otherwise-act-to-exclude-candidates-on-personal-grounds\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNF_spZS4-2Nl1fdmOMZb7lHakUr-A&#39;;return true;">What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#which-certifications-jenkins-ones-or-what" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23which-certifications-jenkins-ones-or-what\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGGUORmehLw8BEE--_IbhLFT07tag&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23which-certifications-jenkins-ones-or-what\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGGUORmehLw8BEE--_IbhLFT07tag&#39;;return true;">Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#use-the-term-jenkins-board-members-and-officers-instead-of-specific-list-of-back-vote-casters" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23use-the-term-jenkins-board-members-and-officers-instead-of-specific-list-of-back-vote-casters\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEoKlJabnVWS1sZFAketdEkfvhG3A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23use-the-term-jenkins-board-members-and-officers-instead-of-specific-list-of-back-vote-casters\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEoKlJabnVWS1sZFAketdEkfvhG3A&#39;;return true;">Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#how-are-potential-ambassadors-found-and-nominated" style="color:rgb(3,102,214);background-color:transparent;text-decoration:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23how-are-potential-ambassadors-found-and-nominated\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHIqFXYTDWdgMiSg02ss8qI0wEy1g&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23how-are-potential-ambassadors-found-and-nominated\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHIqFXYTDWdgMiSg02ss8qI0wEy1g&#39;;return true;">How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEF-DVCjy9Me40jCyMMT_U979J3fg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEF-DVCjy9Me40jCyMMT_U979J3fg&#39;;return true;">JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100#discussion_r186260812" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260812\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEVrG08RqiAbTwJH38MqsU2-65Esw&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260812\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEVrG08RqiAbTwJH38MqsU2-65Esw&#39;;return true;">comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100#discussion_r186260834" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260834\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEu0jzyxjhyaNmGK0m7_NkYd-nnkQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260834\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEu0jzyxjhyaNmGK0m7_NkYd-nnkQ&#39;;return true;">comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100#discussion_r186260844" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260844\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE45R3RhencHKDhZhQNPseL5_MCAg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100%23discussion_r186260844\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE45R3RhencHKDhZhQNPseL5_MCAg&#39;;return true;">comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/5#open-questions" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F5%23open-questions\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHKjHor7hAEdsGTUjme8eJX4FK6dA&#39;;return true;">Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.

PR: <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F100\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNELRHAGZd2HgJNnbmBa45nRaGpssQ&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/100
JEP:  <a rel="nofollow" href="https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc" style="color:rgb(53,114,176);text-decoration:none;font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fbitwiseman%2Fjep%2Fblob%2Fjenkins-ambassador%2Fjep%2F0000%2FREADME.adoc\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFYAsKRxsePWOwXRFp2g3_tus2_Yg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/bitwiseman/jep/blob/jenkins-ambassador/jep/0000/README.adoc

Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Alyssa Tong-2
Thank you Liam

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 3:02 PM, Liam Newman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oleg, Alyssa: 



On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 11:00:29 AM UTC-7, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
Thanks Alyssa!

The form looks great to me.
Looking forward to see the updated JEP.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 7:47:36 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
pls see embedded below:

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa, thanks for the response!

Please find my comments below

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador

It would be great if Ambassadors still have opportunity to provide feedback and cast non-blocking votes to avoid bottlenecks.
E.g. we can say "66% of votes should be positive" or so.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged


 Does it mean yes/no? Or just "to be discussed"?

AT: "Yes". I'll update the JEP accordingly.
 

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

What is "general application process"?

AT: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit  . I will get this application and write out the process in the JEP.


Best regards,
Oleg




 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Alyssa Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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Re: Draft JEP: Jenkins Ambassador Program

Oleg Nenashev
Thanks! My comments are addressed.
+1 for the current proposal


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Alyssa Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you Liam

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 3:02 PM, Liam Newman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oleg, Alyssa: 



On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 11:00:29 AM UTC-7, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
Thanks Alyssa!

The form looks great to me.
Looking forward to see the updated JEP.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 7:47:36 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
pls see embedded below:

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa, thanks for the response!

Please find my comments below

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador

It would be great if Ambassadors still have opportunity to provide feedback and cast non-blocking votes to avoid bottlenecks.
E.g. we can say "66% of votes should be positive" or so.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged


 Does it mean yes/no? Or just "to be discussed"?

AT: "Yes". I'll update the JEP accordingly.
 

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

What is "general application process"?

AT: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M6L4kW4e5Hay3j2swNucek6qNY7n9ujfY_Cw4acCaB4/edit  . I will get this application and write out the process in the JEP.


Best regards,
Oleg




 

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Alyssa Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Oleg,

I wanted to circle back on your Open Questions, which i'll add and respond below:

Should there be a limit of certain # of ambassadors at a given time? Maybe 20 Ambassadors a year?
AT: Since this is a new program, let's not put a cap on # of ambassadors we award per year. It'll be a good problem to have if we have many Jenkins Ambassadors.

What if Ambassador(s) do not vote in good faith or otherwise act to exclude candidates on personal grounds?

Does it mean that any Jenkins Ambassador can block all candidates from being elected during his/her term? Does not look good, people may go negative and toxic sometimes. I would rather prefer to see a vote override engine in this JEP.

AT: This is a good point. Let's forego ambassadors voting on candidate(s). If a candidate meet the criterias, and the Events Officer/Board members can validate their contributions we will make the decision to nominate him/her to ambassador.

Which certifications? Jenkins ones or what?

AT: Jenkins Engineer certification.

Use the term "Jenkins Board members and officers" instead of specific list of back vote casters?

AT: Acknowledged

How are potential Ambassadors found and nominated?

AT: General application process will apply. In addition, if we see someone within the community who are fulfilling all the criterias of an ambassador we will definitely nominate him/her.

Thnx,
alyssa

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 2:37 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Just to provide an update, JEP has been accepted **as a draft**, and now it is known as JEP-5.

In addition to the major concern above, I am reposting my other comments here:
  • comment - JEP Proposal mentions people who may cast votes in addition to Jenkins Ambassadors. Since "Jenkins Ambassador" is proposed as a sponsored community program, IMHO the proposal should mention community roles instead of people. E.g. "Board members and Jenkins officers" or so.
    • Since the project grows and changes, people may move to different roles or leave the project. It would render JEP obsolete.
    • On the other hand, having more explicit benefits to Officers/Board members may encourage contributors to apply to these positions so that we could do some rotation in roles and make the community more diversified
  • comment - "Staff Ask the Expert booth @ Jenkins World" is mentioned as a Benefit. IMHO it should be rather a kind of responsibility and cover other events. Actually, "responsibilities" is the section I would propose to add, because I would also expect Ambassadors to contribute to blog-posts and/or to other community events
  • comment - It is not clear which certifications are offered is benefits

Liam has listed these topics in Open Questions section in the JEP, and IMHO it worth discussing them.


Best regards,
Oleg

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:25:51 PM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
great point Oleg, we'll be sure to include appropriate verbiage 

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:22 AM, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Alyssa and Liam,

Thanks for finalizing it! Commented in the JEP && duplicating it here. Generally it looks good as a draft, but I have concerns about the process. It covers the SUCCESS path well, but taking the target number of ambassadors (20) it's important to take other scenarios into account to make the program more robust.

The election process seems to be bogus by design, because any existing Ambassador may block the election process during his term if he goes rival. There should be a process for overriding votes or terminating membership in the case of such actions . IMHO it should be also explicit that Jenkins Ambassadors are expected to follow Code of Conduct and that their membership may be terminated by Jenkins board in the case of serious violation.


Without that the program proposal seems to be unstable.


BR, Oleg


On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 12:36:29 AM UTC+2, alytong13 wrote:
Hello,

A year or so ago I attempted to initiate the Jenkins Ambassador program. Due to  lack of resources the program was put on the backburner.  Now, with additional resources, we are able to give this another try.

With that said, Liam has kindly written up the pull request and the initial draft of the JEP. I think it's straightforward however there's always room for improvement - if you have feedback pls do share.


Thank you,
Liam and Alyssa

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