Happy Holiday

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Happy Holiday

Marky Jackson
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Gavin Mogan
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

William Hetherington
Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Marky Jackson
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Gavin Mogan
Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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t - @wmwh

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Re: Happy Holiday

Marky Jackson
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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t - @wmwh

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Re: Happy Holiday

William Hetherington
Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!

I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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t - @wmwh

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Re: Happy Holiday

Marky Jackson
I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community discussion take place in the open.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!

I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Marky Jackson
I said Hugo but meant Discourse

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:


I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community discussion take place in the open.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!

I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Tim Jacomb
Personally I’ve never found the invite system in slack very difficult, (not as simple as straight GitHub integration :( ) but you just deploy an app like 
https://github.com/outsideris/slack-invite-automation/blob/master/README.md, add a badge to your readme and then people self service sign themselves up. (Jenkins UX is a weird one for some reason CDF foundation hasn’t set that up so you need an invite)

I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.

Also I’ve never googled something and had a gitter result come back...

Discourse could be useful, as an alternative / supplicant to a mailing list but I don’t think it handles the real time chat aspect.

IRC has a higher barrier to entry imo especially for someone who has used slack or gitter. It works well once you get used to it  but I don’t think many newer projects are using it.

Gitter works most of the time and it’s okay (few annoying issues with it though)

I agree that driving this through a SIG would probably be best, with analysis on what the community wants, along with options out there and a recommendation?

Or different SIGs / plugins keep choosing their own means and it stays fragmented....

Happy holidays
Tim 


On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 11:41, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I said Hugo but meant Discourse

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:


I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community discussion take place in the open.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!

I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Oleg Nenashev
First of all, happy holidays everyone!

I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

As a recently elected board member, I agree that the communication problem becomes more and more important. It is NOT my top priority for the record, current Infra and Community Health issues are more important to me.
  • I am not a fan of Gitter. +100 for "Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable" from Gavin, but it is indeed  abandoned. Issues with notifications and barely usable mobile clients make it a pretty bad default system
  • CDF will not be a replacement in short-term. Their Slack is still in evaluation, and it is a free account at the moment. Until CDF offers a final long-term solution with conversation history retention and easy way to join, it is no-go option for a centralized solution
  • Self-hosted setup with Jenkins LDAP or GitHub integrations might be a good solution for long-term (keybase, rocketchat, Mattermost, whatever), especially if we can offer easy sign-up and access to conversations.  But it is an additional service to setup/maintain, and at the moment the Infra team is quite overloaded with other topics
  • IRC is same as above. It is unusable without conversation histories, and we would need to self-host them.
My preference would be to keep status quo w.r.t this topic for now, and to leave it to SIGs/plugin teams to decide. Once CDF has its own solutions, we can consider adopting them. With the current trends there might be a GitHub Chat at some point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Best regards,
Oleg
 

On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 1:34:28 PM UTC+1, Tim Jacomb wrote:
Personally I’ve never found the invite system in slack very difficult, (not as simple as straight GitHub integration :( ) but you just deploy an app like 
<a href="https://github.com/outsideris/slack-invite-automation/blob/master/README.md" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Foutsideris%2Fslack-invite-automation%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2FREADME.md\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFCOZpboB535P3p4ckLr9cZTSf7YQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Foutsideris%2Fslack-invite-automation%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2FREADME.md\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFCOZpboB535P3p4ckLr9cZTSf7YQ&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/outsideris/slack-invite-automation/blob/master/README.md, add a badge to your readme and then people self service sign themselves up. (Jenkins UX is a weird one for some reason CDF foundation hasn’t set that up so you need an invite)

I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.

Also I’ve never googled something and had a gitter result come back...

Discourse could be useful, as an alternative / supplicant to a mailing list but I don’t think it handles the real time chat aspect.

IRC has a higher barrier to entry imo especially for someone who has used slack or gitter. It works well once you get used to it  but I don’t think many newer projects are using it.

Gitter works most of the time and it’s okay (few annoying issues with it though)

I agree that driving this through a SIG would probably be best, with analysis on what the community wants, along with options out there and a recommendation?

Or different SIGs / plugins keep choosing their own means and it stays fragmented....

Happy holidays
Tim 


On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 11:41, Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">marky....@...> wrote:
I said Hugo but meant Discourse

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">marky....@...> wrote:


I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community discussion take place in the open.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">wi...@...> wrote:


Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!

I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">marky....@...> wrote:
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">jenkin...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or <a href="https://free.discourse.group/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ffree.discourse.group%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE_HUKm-0fDRc1S4w0IBWyXIwdkRw&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ffree.discourse.group%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE_HUKm-0fDRc1S4w0IBWyXIwdkRw&#39;;return true;">https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">marky....@...> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">wi...@...> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

<a href="https://keybase.io/willwh" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fkeybase.io%2Fwillwh\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH0aTQpZo5fWuXJk_gdkDfHMYS43w&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fkeybase.io%2Fwillwh\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH0aTQpZo5fWuXJk_gdkDfHMYS43w&#39;;return true;">https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">jenkin...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="3t9-GteHCgAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">marky....@...> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](<a href="https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fgitchat%2Fstatus%2F1210326466870882306%3Fs%3D21\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG1K8UC4h_7KQd1mxQvvkuLYIV0lQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fgitchat%2Fstatus%2F1210326466870882306%3Fs%3D21\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG1K8UC4h_7KQd1mxQvvkuLYIV0lQ&#39;;return true;">https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

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On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 06:46 Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
First of all, happy holidays everyone!

I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

As a recently elected board member, I agree that the communication problem becomes more and more important. It is NOT my top priority for the record, current Infra and Community Health issues are more important to me.
  • I am not a fan of Gitter. +100 for "Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable" from Gavin, but it is indeed  abandoned. Issues with notifications and barely usable mobile clients make it a pretty bad default system
  • CDF will not be a replacement in short-term. Their Slack is still in evaluation, and it is a free account at the moment. Until CDF offers a final long-term solution with conversation history retention and easy way to join, it is no-go option for a centralized solution
  • Self-hosted setup with Jenkins LDAP or GitHub integrations might be a good solution for long-term (keybase, rocketchat, Mattermost, whatever), especially if we can offer easy sign-up and access to conversations.  But it is an additional service to setup/maintain, and at the moment the Infra team is quite overloaded with other topics
  • IRC is same as above. It is unusable without conversation histories, and we would need to self-host them.
My preference would be to keep status quo w.r.t this topic for now, and to leave it to SIGs/plugin teams to decide. Once CDF has its own solutions, we can consider adopting them. With the current trends there might be a GitHub Chat at some point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Best regards,
Oleg
 

On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 1:34:28 PM UTC+1, Tim Jacomb wrote:
Personally I’ve never found the invite system in slack very difficult, (not as simple as straight GitHub integration :( ) but you just deploy an app like 
https://github.com/outsideris/slack-invite-automation/blob/master/README.md, add a badge to your readme and then people self service sign themselves up. (Jenkins UX is a weird one for some reason CDF foundation hasn’t set that up so you need an invite)

I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.

Also I’ve never googled something and had a gitter result come back...

Discourse could be useful, as an alternative / supplicant to a mailing list but I don’t think it handles the real time chat aspect.

IRC has a higher barrier to entry imo especially for someone who has used slack or gitter. It works well once you get used to it  but I don’t think many newer projects are using it.

Gitter works most of the time and it’s okay (few annoying issues with it though)

I agree that driving this through a SIG would probably be best, with analysis on what the community wants, along with options out there and a recommendation?

Or different SIGs / plugins keep choosing their own means and it stays fragmented....

Happy holidays
Tim 


On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 11:41, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I said Hugo but meant Discourse

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:


I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community discussion take place in the open.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!

I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.

On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:


Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.

I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.

But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Replying to both Gavin and William,
I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
Thank you both again and happy holidays 

On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:


Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.

Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?

It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”

https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.

The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)

Thanks,

Will

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.

Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.

Gavin



On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Matt Sicker
As an Apache nerd, I wholeheartedly support the use of mailing lists
for communication. The use of Keybase/Mattermost/etc. as a real-time
chat could be interesting. Slack, while popular, is still (and likely
will forever remain) a corporate-centric chat product with features
(and anti-features) optimized around that setting. For example, Slack
offers no way to ignore users or DMs which can lead to harassment
(something Slack expects you to handle within your own HR department
rather than through technical means), whereas every single email
client on this planet allows you to ignore senders or apply filters to
things. For that matter, I cannot organize incoming messages in Slack
to any degree.

I would also posit that heavy reliance on Slack for an open source
project raises the bar to entry for new contributors who might not
have enough time to keep up with the deluge of real-time messages that
chat rooms typically contain.

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 9:00 AM Slide <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Fyi, there is a self invite link for the slack setup for CDF.
>
> https://join.slack.com/t/cdeliveryfdn/shared_invite/enQtODM2NDI1NDc0MzIxLTA1MDcxMzUyMGU2NWVlNmQwN2M1N2M4MWJjOWFkM2UzMDY0OWNkNjAzNzM0NzVkNjQ5M2NkMmY2MTRkMWY4MWY
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 06:46 Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> First of all, happy holidays everyone!
>>
>>> I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
>>> With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
>>> We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
>>> Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful.
>>
>>
>> As a recently elected board member, I agree that the communication problem becomes more and more important. It is NOT my top priority for the record, current Infra and Community Health issues are more important to me.
>>
>> I am not a fan of Gitter. +100 for "Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable" from Gavin, but it is indeed  abandoned. Issues with notifications and barely usable mobile clients make it a pretty bad default system
>> CDF will not be a replacement in short-term. Their Slack is still in evaluation, and it is a free account at the moment. Until CDF offers a final long-term solution with conversation history retention and easy way to join, it is no-go option for a centralized solution
>> Self-hosted setup with Jenkins LDAP or GitHub integrations might be a good solution for long-term (keybase, rocketchat, Mattermost, whatever), especially if we can offer easy sign-up and access to conversations.  But it is an additional service to setup/maintain, and at the moment the Infra team is quite overloaded with other topics
>> IRC is same as above. It is unusable without conversation histories, and we would need to self-host them.
>>
>> My preference would be to keep status quo w.r.t this topic for now, and to leave it to SIGs/plugin teams to decide. Once CDF has its own solutions, we can consider adopting them. With the current trends there might be a GitHub Chat at some point ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 1:34:28 PM UTC+1, Tim Jacomb wrote:
>>>
>>> Personally I’ve never found the invite system in slack very difficult, (not as simple as straight GitHub integration :( ) but you just deploy an app like
>>> https://github.com/outsideris/slack-invite-automation/blob/master/README.md, add a badge to your readme and then people self service sign themselves up. (Jenkins UX is a weird one for some reason CDF foundation hasn’t set that up so you need an invite)
>>>
>>> I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.
>>>
>>> Also I’ve never googled something and had a gitter result come back...
>>>
>>> Discourse could be useful, as an alternative / supplicant to a mailing list but I don’t think it handles the real time chat aspect.
>>>
>>> IRC has a higher barrier to entry imo especially for someone who has used slack or gitter. It works well once you get used to it  but I don’t think many newer projects are using it.
>>>
>>> Gitter works most of the time and it’s okay (few annoying issues with it though)
>>>
>>> I agree that driving this through a SIG would probably be best, with analysis on what the community wants, along with options out there and a recommendation?
>>>
>>> Or different SIGs / plugins keep choosing their own means and it stays fragmented....
>>>
>>> Happy holidays
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 11:41, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I said Hugo but meant Discourse
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> I like using chat bots with Hugo but found it even easier with slack and kubernetes integration but I think that might be over the top.
>>>> I do like this conversation though and think it would be worth a survey of sort but that is up to the board and sig leads to try and drive adoption.
>>>> I think the advocacy team can help drive this and other topics but the leads of sig’s and the board have the ultimate representation and that was more the logic for my original email, to help the larger community discussion take place in the open.
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:35 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting, I run discourse for a personal project but didn’t think about it for this.... that is definitely another option!
>>>>
>>>> I wrote a plugin for it to do websockety type comms from a chat box, but I haven’t looked at it in ages, it is probably not functional atm.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 18:12 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a +1 on discourse. Widely used in another oss project and a great medium.
>>>>> The mailing list is good but lacks the direct ‘fast’ style communications a project of this size needs. I still use it but it is not part of muscle memory.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 6:10 PM, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I'd love to downplay the realtime chat and make the mailing lists a bit more useful. Maybe something like discourse (self hosted, or https://free.discourse.group/) setup, where we can have threads that are easily searchable. Its totally able to be managed by email for those who prefer email, and threaded for those that don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't remember the last time I did a google search and the jenkins mailing list came up.
>>>>>
>>>>> But yea, a longer discussion is probably needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Replying to both Gavin and William,
>>>>>> I think your both points are fair and I completely accept it. I do think gitter is limiting but I am in favor of openness over limiting any day.
>>>>>> Thank you both for your insight and this is what the community needs more of. Open discussion and understanding of all view points.
>>>>>> Thank you both again and happy holidays
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 26, 2019, at 5:53 PM, William Hetherington <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Echo much of what Gavin said. Chat is a tough problem to solve, you don’t reach critical mass if there is a cost, and there are just so many.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keybase.io and a private Jenkins team might be a good option?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s e2e encrypted, X-platform clients, allows for public entry rooms in what is otherwise a private “team”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://keybase.io/willwh is my user if you want to follow or chat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other nice thing is keybase is well integrated to github too :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 17:41 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would be very much against yet another slack i'd have to join. Especially cause its a closed system, requiring invites to join. Its certainly why i havn't bothered looking into the jenkins-ux sig.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gitter is nice because everything is public and googleable, you only need a github account, which is the minimum you'd need to contribute to any of the jenkins systems anyways. Though gitter is pretty abandoned, and I would prefer IRC, especially with a public logging bot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gavin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:27 PM Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
>>>>>>>> With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding.
>>>>>>>> I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
>>>>>>>> With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
>>>>>>>> We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
>>>>>>>> Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/139A5221-5B88-4B8E-A96A-39D399587D0F%40gmail.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAG%3D_DutWqTvR%3DAYwGcHUW10fGNj-OjV4NX06Kcj9%2BZP4PY%2BMFA%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> William Hetherington
>>>>>> w - opschops.ca
>>>>>> t - @wmwh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CALJU9pcNf0LsP7k1MSyOK6_7_wzis%3D4UCviKhRQ0jjK%2BXtQCVw%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/E8781E68-9F38-42BD-A6FC-6F7EE7EF56BC%40gmail.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAG%3D_Dustcus%3DqvEVo4JAyGoEZ-Qt%3DwFjj4nB4TZP4gGen2qbyw%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/C6931BD8-9B3E-442E-BBDE-8F8177D74F35%40gmail.com.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> William Hetherington
>>>> w - opschops.ca
>>>> t - @wmwh
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>
>>>> --
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>>
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Re: Happy Holiday

Jesse Glick-4
In reply to this post by Tim Jacomb
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM Tim Jacomb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.

Yes, and it works well in my experience. Jenkins X uses that
workspace, for example, and it was easy to sign up. +1 for using
Slack, strong -1 for IRC.

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Re: Happy Holiday

Baptiste Mathus-4
I think a strong concern as it is right now is that CDF's Slack is still on the free plan.

I am going to ask around what are the plan and any ETA for this to be either approved, or rejected.

I would not like us to work on the UX/UI refresh, but see older messages become inaccessible in a few weeks/months from now, preventing us from doing archeology to figure out some design/technical decisions after the fact or so. 



On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 5:32 PM Jesse Glick <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM Tim Jacomb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.

Yes, and it works well in my experience. Jenkins X uses that
workspace, for example, and it was easy to sign up. +1 for using
Slack, strong -1 for IRC.

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Re: Happy Holiday

Baptiste Mathus-4

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 1:58 PM Baptiste Mathus <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think a strong concern as it is right now is that CDF's Slack is still on the free plan.

I am going to ask around what are the plan and any ETA for this to be either approved, or rejected.

I would not like us to work on the UX/UI refresh, but see older messages become inaccessible in a few weeks/months from now, preventing us from doing archeology to figure out some design/technical decisions after the fact or so. 



On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 5:32 PM Jesse Glick <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM Tim Jacomb <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I’ve seen it work really well elsewhere, k8s has a very large slack community with multiple sigs and user groups.

Yes, and it works well in my experience. Jenkins X uses that
workspace, for example, and it was easy to sign up. +1 for using
Slack, strong -1 for IRC.

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Re: Happy Holiday

Joseph P
In reply to this post by Marky Jackson
Here's a crazy thought, use GitHub?

It's a matter of creating appropriate repos and using GitHub issues / pull requests.

For announcement see

if you need some structure create a repo with the desired content structure.

GitHub can get pretty chatty.
If your discussing a persisted topic, create pull request, add a review to the topic line and let the thread messaging commence 🥰👏

If you need to chat with your team? Create proper team structure and use GitHub Team Discussion (which atm is currently disabled in most teams https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/core )

I do not see a need for a separate channel once GitHub's new notifications is out.
Totally loving being in the new notifications beta! 👏


On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 2:27:40 AM UTC+1, Marky Jackson wrote:
The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
With [gitter being down](<a href="https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fgitchat%2Fstatus%2F1210326466870882306%3Fs%3D21\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG1K8UC4h_7KQd1mxQvvkuLYIV0lQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fgitchat%2Fstatus%2F1210326466870882306%3Fs%3D21\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG1K8UC4h_7KQd1mxQvvkuLYIV0lQ&#39;;return true;">https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding. 
I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful. 

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Re: Happy Holiday

Matt Sicker
How do you opt in to the new notifications thing? I'm only opted in to
some code-owners feature right now.

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:58 PM Joseph P <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Here's a crazy thought, use GitHub?
>
> It's a matter of creating appropriate repos and using GitHub issues / pull requests.
>
> For announcement see
> https://github.com/dotnet/announcements/issues
>
> if you need some structure create a repo with the desired content structure.
>
> GitHub can get pretty chatty.
> If your discussing a persisted topic, create pull request, add a review to the topic line and let the thread messaging commence 🥰
>
> If you need to chat with your team? Create proper team structure and use GitHub Team Discussion (which atm is currently disabled in most teams https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/core )
>
> I do not see a need for a separate channel once GitHub's new notifications is out.
> Totally loving being in the new notifications beta!
>
>
> On Friday, December 27, 2019 at 2:27:40 AM UTC+1, Marky Jackson wrote:
>>
>> The holidays are upon us and it’s time to relax and look back on the year and at the roadmap for the future.
>> With [gitter being down](https://twitter.com/gitchat/status/1210326466870882306?s=21) I think the conversation should be had regarding moving off the archaic (gitter/irc) communications used for the community and into a more robust form of unified community bonding.
>> I would love to see the recently nominated board move to standardize, not only our crumbling infrastructure but also the means by which we communicate.
>> With the CDF integration in the works I would also love to hear more about how that looks. More so how this community adapts to that new world (and their use of slack as a communication medium).
>> We had a lot of emails about the integration and board nominations (along with officers), I personally am eager to hear more about the plans and the way to make rubber meet the road from all newly elected officials and returning ones.
>> Happy New Years all and thank you to all the contributors for all the hard work you put in to this project, I for one am immensely thankful.
>
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Matt Sicker
Senior Software Engineer, CloudBees

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Re: Happy Holiday

Daniel Beck-2
In reply to this post by Joseph P


On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:58 PM Joseph P <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here's a crazy thought, use GitHub?

It's a matter of creating appropriate repos and using GitHub issues / pull requests.

For announcement see

if you need some structure create a repo with the desired content structure.

GitHub can get pretty chatty.
If your discussing a persisted topic, create pull request, add a review to the topic line and let the thread messaging commence 🥰👏

 
If you need to chat with your team? Create proper team structure and use GitHub Team Discussion (which atm is currently disabled in most teams https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/core )

Disabled for the entire org, because I consider per-repo teams to be ephemeral due to quite a bit of cleanup I did a while back.

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