Is it called "Project" or is it called "Job"?

[martinda]

The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.

[stephenconnolly]

Actually there is more confusion in store.... when you install certain
plugins in jenkins, then "New Job" turns into "New Item".

These plugins typically define new types of top level items, and where
the full set of top level items all have the same "pronoun" you get
"New Job" but if they have different "pronoun"s then you will see "New
Item"

Fun!

On 15 May 2012 14:02, bl0ck3r <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
> create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
> titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
> couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.

[Jminne-3]

I don't know if we need to do a poll to pick one or if it has been decided already, but sticking with just Project OR Job would be great.

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:02:51 AM UTC-5, bl0ck3r wrote:

The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.

[Edward Cullen]

On 15/05/12 19:37, Jminne wrote:
> I don't know if we need to do a poll to pick one or if it has been
> decided already, but sticking with just Project OR Job would be great.

I concur. Don't care which, but be consistent please :)

> On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:02:51 AM UTC-5, bl0ck3r wrote:
>
>     The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
>     create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
>     titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
>     couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.
>


--
Edward Cullen
Software Engineer
n.able Technology Services
Tel: [phone]
Mob: [phone]
mailto:[hidden email]

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[Simon Wiest]

Hi bl0ck3r,

this puzzled me as well at the beginning, but there's actually quite
some logic to it ;O):

A project is a special case of a job, i.e. all projects are jobs, but
not all jobs are projects.

Cheers,
Simon.


The long story:

Perhaps it helps to extend to mentally the names to "*general purpose*
jobs" and "*software building* projects" (although the latter don't need
build software, they are tailored to this use case).

In the case of "new job", Jenkins can't not know yet, if the new job
will be of the project subtype. On the other hand, once you have chosen
to create a project, this is reflected as specific as possible in the UI
("Project Foo"). If you look at the precise wording on the "New Job"
page, you'll realize the subtle differences (e.g. "Build a free-style
software *project*" as opposed to "Monitor an external *job*").

An example of a job that is *not* a project is the lesser known
"external job" that receives  notifications from events that happen
outside Jenkins, but should be tracked inside Jenkins (e.g. system
restarts etc.). See
https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Monitoring+external+jobs for
more about this job type.

For the records, this is actual class model used by Jenkins internally
(extending sub-classes are indented below their super-class:

Job
   AbstractProject
     MatrixProject (a.k.a. "multi-configuration project")
     Project
       FreeStyleProject
       MatrixConfiguration (a single configuration of a matrix project)
   StubJob
   ViewJob
     ExternalJob

Only FreeStyleProject, MatrixProject, and ExternalJob are visible on the
"New Job" page.

So, how could we could improve the understanding of the difference
between "Job" and "Project" in the UI? Any suggestions?
--
bl0ck3r (15.05.2012 15:02):
> The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
> create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
> titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
> couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.

[Christoph Kutzinski]

IMHO the average user either wouldn't understand these subtle differences anyway or if she would understand she probably wouldn't care.

So, I would like to see a single name for this in the UI.
E.g. I cannot see any significant difference between 'external job' and 'external project' (just personal liking that job sounds better in that case), so both would work. Same for maven job or maven project.


Just my 2 cents.

Christoph




-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:26:31 +0200
> Von: Simon Wiest <[hidden email]>
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: Is it called "Project" or is it called "Job"?

> Hi bl0ck3r,
>
> this puzzled me as well at the beginning, but there's actually quite
> some logic to it ;O):
>
> A project is a special case of a job, i.e. all projects are jobs, but
> not all jobs are projects.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon.
>
>
> The long story:
>
> Perhaps it helps to extend to mentally the names to "*general purpose*
> jobs" and "*software building* projects" (although the latter don't need
> build software, they are tailored to this use case).
>
> In the case of "new job", Jenkins can't not know yet, if the new job
> will be of the project subtype. On the other hand, once you have chosen
> to create a project, this is reflected as specific as possible in the UI
> ("Project Foo"). If you look at the precise wording on the "New Job"
> page, you'll realize the subtle differences (e.g. "Build a free-style
> software *project*" as opposed to "Monitor an external *job*").
>
> An example of a job that is *not* a project is the lesser known
> "external job" that receives  notifications from events that happen
> outside Jenkins, but should be tracked inside Jenkins (e.g. system
> restarts etc.). See
> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Monitoring+external+jobs for
> more about this job type.
>
> For the records, this is actual class model used by Jenkins internally
> (extending sub-classes are indented below their super-class:
>
> Job
>    AbstractProject
>      MatrixProject (a.k.a. "multi-configuration project")
>      Project
>        FreeStyleProject
>        MatrixConfiguration (a single configuration of a matrix project)
>    StubJob
>    ViewJob
>      ExternalJob
>
> Only FreeStyleProject, MatrixProject, and ExternalJob are visible on the
> "New Job" page.
>
> So, how could we could improve the understanding of the difference
> between "Job" and "Project" in the UI? Any suggestions?
> --
> bl0ck3r (15.05.2012 15:02):
> > The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
> > create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
> > titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
> > couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.

[stephenconnolly]

It really starts to break down when you have....

* Freestyle project

* Maven 2 project

* Folder

* Update center

* Backup job

* Some random name corresponding to a template you have created

* Some random name corresponding to a template you have created

* Some random name corresponding to a template you have created

* External job

* Copy existing job

[Submit]

Which is what you start to see when you install the CloudBees Plugin
Gateway (to get the folders and backup to the cloud plugins that
CloudBees are giving away free as beer) or when you switch to
CloudBees Enterprise (for all our non-free plugins)

Which is why I think it might be better to just switch everything to
either "New Item" or "New..." and be done with it ;-)

Of course that could just be a personal bias ;-)

-Stephen

On 16 May 2012 15:10, Christoph Kutzinski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMHO the average user either wouldn't understand these subtle differences anyway or if she would understand she probably wouldn't care.
>
> So, I would like to see a single name for this in the UI.
> E.g. I cannot see any significant difference between 'external job' and 'external project' (just personal liking that job sounds better in that case), so both would work. Same for maven job or maven project.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Christoph
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> Datum: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:26:31 +0200
>> Von: Simon Wiest <[hidden email]>
>> An: [hidden email]
>> Betreff: Re: Is it called "Project" or is it called "Job"?
>
>> Hi bl0ck3r,
>>
>> this puzzled me as well at the beginning, but there's actually quite
>> some logic to it ;O):
>>
>> A project is a special case of a job, i.e. all projects are jobs, but
>> not all jobs are projects.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Simon.
>>
>>
>> The long story:
>>
>> Perhaps it helps to extend to mentally the names to "*general purpose*
>> jobs" and "*software building* projects" (although the latter don't need
>> build software, they are tailored to this use case).
>>
>> In the case of "new job", Jenkins can't not know yet, if the new job
>> will be of the project subtype. On the other hand, once you have chosen
>> to create a project, this is reflected as specific as possible in the UI
>> ("Project Foo"). If you look at the precise wording on the "New Job"
>> page, you'll realize the subtle differences (e.g. "Build a free-style
>> software *project*" as opposed to "Monitor an external *job*").
>>
>> An example of a job that is *not* a project is the lesser known
>> "external job" that receives  notifications from events that happen
>> outside Jenkins, but should be tracked inside Jenkins (e.g. system
>> restarts etc.). See
>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Monitoring+external+jobs for
>> more about this job type.
>>
>> For the records, this is actual class model used by Jenkins internally
>> (extending sub-classes are indented below their super-class:
>>
>> Job
>>    AbstractProject
>>      MatrixProject (a.k.a. "multi-configuration project")
>>      Project
>>        FreeStyleProject
>>        MatrixConfiguration (a single configuration of a matrix project)
>>    StubJob
>>    ViewJob
>>      ExternalJob
>>
>> Only FreeStyleProject, MatrixProject, and ExternalJob are visible on the
>> "New Job" page.
>>
>> So, how could we could improve the understanding of the difference
>> between "Job" and "Project" in the UI? Any suggestions?
>> --
>> bl0ck3r (15.05.2012 15:02):
>> > The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
>> > create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
>> > titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
>> > couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.

[Max Spring]

IMO, "project" is a complete misnomer in Jenkins, because a "project" is something a human works on.
A "job" is something Jenkins executes.
A "project" has zero or more "jobs".
-Max


On 05/16/2012 07:30 AM, Stephen Connolly wrote:

> It really starts to break down when you have....
>
> * Freestyle project
>
> * Maven 2 project
>
> * Folder
>
> * Update center
>
> * Backup job
>
> * Some random name corresponding to a template you have created
>
> * Some random name corresponding to a template you have created
>
> * Some random name corresponding to a template you have created
>
> * External job
>
> * Copy existing job
>
> [Submit]
>
> Which is what you start to see when you install the CloudBees Plugin
> Gateway (to get the folders and backup to the cloud plugins that
> CloudBees are giving away free as beer) or when you switch to
> CloudBees Enterprise (for all our non-free plugins)
>
> Which is why I think it might be better to just switch everything to
> either "New Item" or "New..." and be done with it ;-)
>
> Of course that could just be a personal bias ;-)
>
> -Stephen
>
> On 16 May 2012 15:10, Christoph Kutzinski<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> IMHO the average user either wouldn't understand these subtle differences anyway or if she would understand she probably wouldn't care.
>>
>> So, I would like to see a single name for this in the UI.
>> E.g. I cannot see any significant difference between 'external job' and 'external project' (just personal liking that job sounds better in that case), so both would work. Same for maven job or maven project.
>>
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> Christoph
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>>> Datum: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:26:31 +0200
>>> Von: Simon Wiest<[hidden email]>
>>> An: [hidden email]
>>> Betreff: Re: Is it called "Project" or is it called "Job"?
>>
>>> Hi bl0ck3r,
>>>
>>> this puzzled me as well at the beginning, but there's actually quite
>>> some logic to it ;O):
>>>
>>> A project is a special case of a job, i.e. all projects are jobs, but
>>> not all jobs are projects.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Simon.
>>>
>>>
>>> The long story:
>>>
>>> Perhaps it helps to extend to mentally the names to "*general purpose*
>>> jobs" and "*software building* projects" (although the latter don't need
>>> build software, they are tailored to this use case).
>>>
>>> In the case of "new job", Jenkins can't not know yet, if the new job
>>> will be of the project subtype. On the other hand, once you have chosen
>>> to create a project, this is reflected as specific as possible in the UI
>>> ("Project Foo"). If you look at the precise wording on the "New Job"
>>> page, you'll realize the subtle differences (e.g. "Build a free-style
>>> software *project*" as opposed to "Monitor an external *job*").
>>>
>>> An example of a job that is *not* a project is the lesser known
>>> "external job" that receives  notifications from events that happen
>>> outside Jenkins, but should be tracked inside Jenkins (e.g. system
>>> restarts etc.). See
>>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Monitoring+external+jobs for
>>> more about this job type.
>>>
>>> For the records, this is actual class model used by Jenkins internally
>>> (extending sub-classes are indented below their super-class:
>>>
>>> Job
>>>     AbstractProject
>>>       MatrixProject (a.k.a. "multi-configuration project")
>>>       Project
>>>         FreeStyleProject
>>>         MatrixConfiguration (a single configuration of a matrix project)
>>>     StubJob
>>>     ViewJob
>>>       ExternalJob
>>>
>>> Only FreeStyleProject, MatrixProject, and ExternalJob are visible on the
>>> "New Job" page.
>>>
>>> So, how could we could improve the understanding of the difference
>>> between "Job" and "Project" in the UI? Any suggestions?
>>> --
>>> bl0ck3r (15.05.2012 15:02):
>>>> The UI needs to be more consistent. In the main Jenkins menu, I can
>>>> create a "New Job" called Foo, but after it is created, the page is
>>>> titled "Project Foo". This is inconsistent and got me confused for a
>>>> couple of days as I was learning Jenkins.
>

[Les Mikesell]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Max Spring <[hidden email]> wrote:
> IMO, "project" is a complete misnomer in Jenkins, because a "project" is
> something a human works on.

Why can't a project be automated?

> A "job" is something Jenkins executes.
> A "project" has zero or more "jobs".

But isn't the description of the jobs to be repeated a project?  I'd
think of a single run as a job, but the configuration for the ongoing
repetition as a project.

--
   Les Mikesell
     [hidden email]

[Jan Seidel-2]

*uhm*....
Is it called "Project" or is it called "Job"?
is it important? IMHO not ;)


Am Montag, 16. Juli 2012 22:36:51 UTC+2 schrieb LesMikesell:

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Max Spring <[hidden email]> wrote:
> IMO, "project" is a complete misnomer in Jenkins, because a "project" is
> something a human works on.

Why can't a project be automated?

> A "job" is something Jenkins executes.
> A "project" has zero or more "jobs".

But isn't the description of the jobs to be repeated a project?  I'd
think of a single run as a job, but the configuration for the ongoing
repetition as a project.

--
   Les Mikesell
     [hidden email]

[Sami Tikka]

Currently it seems Jenkins UI uses "project" and "job" as synonyms. A single run of a "job" or "project" is usually named a "build". It would be nice to get some consistency on that.

By the way, if someone feels deeply enough about this, go to https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins, fork it, fix it and submit a pull request.

-- Sami