Jenkins Governance Meeting on Jun 17, 2020

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Jenkins Governance Meeting on Jun 17, 2020

Oleg Nenashev
Dear all,

The next Jenkins Governance Meeting will take place on June 17th, at 6:00-7:00PM UTC. The meeting will be held in Zoom, please use this link to join. This is an open meeting, everyone is welcome to participate.

You can find the draft agenda below. Please feel free to propose your topics here. The idea is to have a number of relatively short topics in the beginning of the meeting, and then to spend the second half of the meeting to discuss the terminology updates which is a quite hot topic in the developer mailing list.

As usual, the recording of the meeting will be published on June 18th after the call. Meeting notes will be available here.

Best regards,
Oleg Nenashev

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Re: Jenkins Governance Meeting on Jun 17, 2020

Daniel Beck


> On 16. Jun 2020, at 23:06, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> • Terminology updates
> • https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8
> • Vote: Replacing the whitelist/blacklist terminology
> • Allowlist/Denylist
> • Allowlist/Blocklist

This seems premature. The scope is unclear. There's a single whitelist I can think of that's exposed on the UI and not effectively deprecated, and that's in a (bundled, but still) plugin. Are there others, or is this a matter of a single PR to a single component?

> • Discussion: Replacing master terminology

The discussion is ongoing on the dev list, adding a second channel that only some can participate in seems counterproductive. What's the goal here?

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Re: Jenkins Governance Meeting on Jun 17, 2020

Tracy Miranda
It seems reasonable to me that we vote on the decision to deprecate whitelist/blacklist in favour of the new terminology. 
Similar to slave process that would be as a community we state our intent and have no new materials/code created with the deprecated terms. 
This also means we contact blog post/tutorial writes and let them know we've updated terms as we do already with slave term.

At the last advocacy & outreach meeting we did a quick search and there were a bunch of uses of the whitelist phrase beyond what you reference here (e.g. in JEPs). 
We can vote on the deprecation and then track places to upgrade, similar to https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-42816 (i.e. separating out trivial changes and non-trivial ones that impact compatibility). 

There are many conversations on this happening in different forums which is good. The governance meeting seems a good place to continue these conversations and drive for shared understanding and work towards consensus. 

Tracy

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 7:20 PM Daniel Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 16. Jun 2020, at 23:06, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       • Terminology updates
>               • https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8
>               • Vote: Replacing the whitelist/blacklist terminology
>                       • Allowlist/Denylist
>                       • Allowlist/Blocklist

This seems premature. The scope is unclear. There's a single whitelist I can think of that's exposed on the UI and not effectively deprecated, and that's in a (bundled, but still) plugin. Are there others, or is this a matter of a single PR to a single component?

>               • Discussion: Replacing master terminology

The discussion is ongoing on the dev list, adding a second channel that only some can participate in seems counterproductive. What's the goal here?

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Re: Jenkins Governance Meeting on Jun 17, 2020

Oleg Nenashev
I think it worth discussing the terminology ad collecting more feedbak about options listed in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?usp=sharing
No strong opinion about voting today, but we could agree whether we change the terminology or not. That part looks relatively straightforward taking the feedback we've got from users and contributors.

BR, Oleg

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:25:23 PM UTC+2, Tracy Miranda wrote:
It seems reasonable to me that we vote on the decision to deprecate whitelist/blacklist in favour of the new terminology. 
Similar to slave process that would be as a community we state our intent and have no new materials/code created with the deprecated terms. 
This also means we contact blog post/tutorial writes and let them know we've updated terms as we do already with slave term.

At the last advocacy & outreach meeting we did a quick search and there were a bunch of uses of the whitelist phrase beyond what you reference here (e.g. in JEPs). 
We can vote on the deprecation and then track places to upgrade, similar to <a href="https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-42816" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fissues.jenkins-ci.org%2Fbrowse%2FJENKINS-42816\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHfyk163UiXb9JlSxTj-kb_WFHj6g&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fissues.jenkins-ci.org%2Fbrowse%2FJENKINS-42816\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHfyk163UiXb9JlSxTj-kb_WFHj6g&#39;;return true;">https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-42816 (i.e. separating out trivial changes and non-trivial ones that impact compatibility). 

There are many conversations on this happening in different forums which is good. The governance meeting seems a good place to continue these conversations and drive for shared understanding and work towards consensus. 

Tracy

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 7:20 PM Daniel Beck <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="WVKbuh7pBQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">m...@...> wrote:


> On 16. Jun 2020, at 23:06, Oleg Nenashev <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="WVKbuh7pBQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">o.v.n...@...> wrote:
>
>       • Terminology updates
>               • <a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8&#39;;return true;">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8
>               • Vote: Replacing the whitelist/blacklist terminology
>                       • Allowlist/Denylist
>                       • Allowlist/Blocklist

This seems premature. The scope is unclear. There's a single whitelist I can think of that's exposed on the UI and not effectively deprecated, and that's in a (bundled, but still) plugin. Are there others, or is this a matter of a single PR to a single component?

>               • Discussion: Replacing master terminology

The discussion is ongoing on the dev list, adding a second channel that only some can participate in seems counterproductive. What's the goal here?

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Re: Jenkins Governance Meeting on Jun 17, 2020

Oleg Nenashev
Hi all,

Materials from the meeting:
  • Recording: https://youtu.be/3g0GKvVHfgI
  • Meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Nr8QpqYgBiZjORplL_3Zkwys2qK1vEvK-NYyYa4rzg/edit#heading=h.cgd8zbewht8o
  • Summary: At this meeting we discussed the terminology updates and agreed on an action plan w.r.t new names for "master", "whitelist" and "blacklist" terms. We also agreed to update the Jenkins Code of Conduct to Contributor Covenant 2.0, to proceed with enabling Community Bridge funding in the project (JEP-15). We also reviewed hosting of plugins with proprietary dependencies, and agreed that we do not want to revisit the policy which prohibits it.
Best regards,
Oleg



On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 7:54:14 PM UTC+2, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
I think it worth discussing the terminology ad collecting more feedbak about options listed in <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?usp\x3dsharing&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?usp\x3dsharing&#39;;return true;">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?usp=sharing
No strong opinion about voting today, but we could agree whether we change the terminology or not. That part looks relatively straightforward taking the feedback we've got from users and contributors.

BR, Oleg

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 5:25:23 PM UTC+2, Tracy Miranda wrote:
It seems reasonable to me that we vote on the decision to deprecate whitelist/blacklist in favour of the new terminology. 
Similar to slave process that would be as a community we state our intent and have no new materials/code created with the deprecated terms. 
This also means we contact blog post/tutorial writes and let them know we've updated terms as we do already with slave term.

At the last advocacy & outreach meeting we did a quick search and there were a bunch of uses of the whitelist phrase beyond what you reference here (e.g. in JEPs). 
We can vote on the deprecation and then track places to upgrade, similar to <a href="https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-42816" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fissues.jenkins-ci.org%2Fbrowse%2FJENKINS-42816\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHfyk163UiXb9JlSxTj-kb_WFHj6g&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fissues.jenkins-ci.org%2Fbrowse%2FJENKINS-42816\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHfyk163UiXb9JlSxTj-kb_WFHj6g&#39;;return true;">https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-42816 (i.e. separating out trivial changes and non-trivial ones that impact compatibility). 

There are many conversations on this happening in different forums which is good. The governance meeting seems a good place to continue these conversations and drive for shared understanding and work towards consensus. 

Tracy

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 7:20 PM Daniel Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 16. Jun 2020, at 23:06, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>       • Terminology updates
>               • <a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8&#39;;return true;">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/CLR55wMZwZ8
>               • Vote: Replacing the whitelist/blacklist terminology
>                       • Allowlist/Denylist
>                       • Allowlist/Blocklist

This seems premature. The scope is unclear. There's a single whitelist I can think of that's exposed on the UI and not effectively deprecated, and that's in a (bundled, but still) plugin. Are there others, or is this a matter of a single PR to a single component?

>               • Discussion: Replacing master terminology

The discussion is ongoing on the dev list, adding a second channel that only some can participate in seems counterproductive. What's the goal here?

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