Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

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Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Carlos Sanchez
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Tracy Miranda
+1. Great and much needed initiative. 

I confirm I will be participating. 

Regards,
Tracy

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

nicolas de loof-2
+1 as well. Confirm I'd like to be in and contribute, at least for Configuration-as-Code support, but not limited to this scope as long as I can be helpful. 

Le jeu. 5 juil. 2018 à 11:42, Tracy Miranda <[hidden email]> a écrit :
+1. Great and much needed initiative. 

I confirm I will be participating. 

Regards,
Tracy

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

--
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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Carlos Sanchez
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez
Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

== Abstract

We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.

== Specification

The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.

=== Target Audience

The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.

=== Meetings

There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.

Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.

=== Chairs

* Carlos Sanchez

=== Areas for Improvement

There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.

A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.

We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.

By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.

==== Artifact Storage

The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.

Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.

While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.

==== Log Storage

Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...

There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the  https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.

==== Configuration Storage

While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code

==== Replication

If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.


== Motivation

The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.

While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.

Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.

== Reasoning

Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.

This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.

== Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.

== Infrastructure Requirements

Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.

It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.


On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

--
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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Olblak-2
+1 I am also interested by this topic

---
-> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 52210D3D
---




On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 3:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

== Abstract

We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.

== Specification

The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.

=== Target Audience

The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.

=== Meetings

There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.

Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.

=== Chairs

* Carlos Sanchez

=== Areas for Improvement

There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.

A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.

We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.

By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.

==== Artifact Storage

The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.

Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.

While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.

==== Log Storage

Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...

There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the  https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.

==== Configuration Storage

While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code

==== Replication

If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.


== Motivation

The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.

While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.

Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.

== Reasoning

Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.

This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.

== Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.

== Infrastructure Requirements

Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.

It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks


--
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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Samuel Van Oort
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez
I would also be interested in participating -- I'm a reviewer for some of the related work and some of the things I'm doing will overlap with this space. 

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:16:26 PM UTC-4, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136

I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

--
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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Oleg Nenashev
I'm in

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 2:17:27 PM UTC+2, Samuel Van Oort wrote:
I would also be interested in participating -- I'm a reviewer for some of the related work and some of the things I'm doing will overlap with this space. 

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:16:26 PM UTC-4, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136

I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

--
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/ed9d3abc-ea43-4b71-b005-38f7fb37e755%40googlegroups.com.
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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

arch-2
In reply to this post by Olblak-2
+1 I am glad to follow


素人派
生命不息,折腾不止,技术改变生活!


https://github.com/LinuxSuRen

On 07/6/2018 16:39[hidden email] wrote:
+1 I am also interested by this topic

---
-> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 52210D3D
---




On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 3:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

== Abstract

We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.

== Specification

The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.

=== Target Audience

The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.

=== Meetings

There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.

Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.

=== Chairs

* Carlos Sanchez

=== Areas for Improvement

There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.

A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.

We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.

By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.

==== Artifact Storage

The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.

Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.

While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.

==== Log Storage

Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...

There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the  https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.

==== Configuration Storage

While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code

==== Replication

If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.


== Motivation

The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.

While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.

Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.

== Reasoning

Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.

This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.

== Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.

== Infrastructure Requirements

Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.

It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks


--
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Leonardo Rossetti
I would like to join/contribute as well.

2018-07-07 22:58 GMT-03:00 linuxsuren <[hidden email]>:
+1 I am glad to follow


素人派
生命不息,折腾不止,技术改变生活!


https://github.com/LinuxSuRen

On 07/6/2018 16:39[hidden email] wrote:
+1 I am also interested by this topic

---
-> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 52210D3D
---




On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 3:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

== Abstract

We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.

== Specification

The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.

=== Target Audience

The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.

=== Meetings

There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.

Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.

=== Chairs

* Carlos Sanchez

=== Areas for Improvement

There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.

A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.

We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.

By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.

==== Artifact Storage

The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.

Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.

While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.

==== Log Storage

Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...

There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the  https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.

==== Configuration Storage

While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code

==== Replication

If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.


== Motivation

The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.

While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.

Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.

== Reasoning

Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.

This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.

== Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.

== Infrastructure Requirements

Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.

It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks


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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Baptiste MATHUS
+1. Having worked on this quite recently, I'm interested to participate :).

Le lun. 9 juil. 2018 à 15:36, Leonardo Rossetti <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I would like to join/contribute as well.

2018-07-07 22:58 GMT-03:00 linuxsuren <[hidden email]>:
+1 I am glad to follow


素人派
生命不息,折腾不止,技术改变生活!


https://github.com/LinuxSuRen

On 07/6/2018 16:39[hidden email] wrote:
+1 I am also interested by this topic

---
-> gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 52210D3D
---




On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 3:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

== Abstract

We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.

== Specification

The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.

=== Target Audience

The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.

=== Meetings

There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.

Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.

=== Chairs

* Carlos Sanchez

=== Areas for Improvement

There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.

A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.

We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.

By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.

==== Artifact Storage

The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.

Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.

While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.

==== Log Storage

Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...

There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the  https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.

==== Configuration Storage

While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code

==== Replication

If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.


== Motivation

The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.

While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.

Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.

== Reasoning

Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.

This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.

== Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.

== Infrastructure Requirements

Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.

It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks


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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Vic Iglesias
+1 Looking forward to engaging in this SIG.

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 6:58:45 AM UTC-7, Baptiste Mathus wrote:
+1. Having worked on this quite recently, I'm interested to participate :).

Le lun. 9 juil. 2018 à 15:36, Leonardo Rossetti <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="jNMWizzWAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">m...@...> a écrit :
I would like to join/contribute as well.

2018-07-07 22:58 GMT-03:00 linuxsuren <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="jNMWizzWAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">linux...@...>:
+1 I am glad to follow


素人派
生命不息,折腾不止,技术改变生活!


<a href="https://github.com/LinuxSuRen" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FLinuxSuRen\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG4gY6ISa78QQ6cKGlC4hBhOBiFHQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FLinuxSuRen\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG4gY6ISa78QQ6cKGlC4hBhOBiFHQ&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/LinuxSuRen

On 07/6/2018 16:39,<a style="text-decoration:none;color:#2a83f2" href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="jNMWizzWAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">Olbl...@...> wrote:
+1 I am also interested by this topic

---
-> gpg --keyserver <a href="http://keys.gnupg.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkeys.gnupg.net\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGGvem0n8cSWWfyOfhzR-uVSpk4NQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkeys.gnupg.net\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGGvem0n8cSWWfyOfhzR-uVSpk4NQ&#39;;return true;">keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 52210D3D
---




On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, at 3:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

== Abstract

We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.

== Specification

The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.

=== Target Audience

The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.

=== Meetings

There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.

Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.

=== Chairs

* Carlos Sanchez

=== Areas for Improvement

There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.

A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.

We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.

By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.

==== Artifact Storage

The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.

Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.

While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the <a href="https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3%5BS3" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fplugins.jenkins.io%2Fs3%255BS3\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGOz-IGJzwohkaQPjk9VwN7CgiLKA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fplugins.jenkins.io%2Fs3%255BS3\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGOz-IGJzwohkaQPjk9VwN7CgiLKA&#39;;return true;">https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.

==== Log Storage

Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as <a href="https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html%5BAWS" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdocs.aws.amazon.com%2FAmazonCloudWatch%2Flatest%2Flogs%2FWhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html%255BAWS\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE_IuGwlvdDCv7RlwMbv_ofNFbTGg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdocs.aws.amazon.com%2FAmazonCloudWatch%2Flatest%2Flogs%2FWhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html%255BAWS\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE_IuGwlvdDCv7RlwMbv_ofNFbTGg&#39;;return true;">https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...

There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the  <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin%5Baws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin%5D" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Faws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin%255Baws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin%255D\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGWsrsGO4Ly7cHH3mFYTXWjy6y_Ug&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Faws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin%255Baws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin%255D\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGWsrsGO4Ly7cHH3mFYTXWjy6y_Ug&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.

==== Configuration Storage

While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fconfiguration-as-code-plugin\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEBFSLRRiRNYGWqAZr6GdCRCYi73w&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fconfiguration-as-code-plugin\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEBFSLRRiRNYGWqAZr6GdCRCYi73w&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code

==== Replication

If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.


== Motivation

The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.

While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F300\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEKa63NAiwqU8STMliOlgC9opwkfw&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F300\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEKa63NAiwqU8STMliOlgC9opwkfw&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.

Other related projects include <a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F400\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGfngzEKwdCjdQnZLweSQduWVz6rA&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Ftree%2Fmaster%2Fjep%2F400\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGfngzEKwdCjdQnZLweSQduWVz6rA&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.

== Reasoning

Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.

This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.

== Backwards Compatibility

Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.

== Infrastructure Requirements

Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.

It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 6:16 PM Carlos Sanchez <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="jNMWizzWAwAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">car...@...> wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136

I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks


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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Jesse Glick-4
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 9:16 AM Carlos Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion

Ideally we would have a “vision JEP”¹ which lays out the general
requirements which particular topics like JEP-202 can refer to. This
is what Essentials did with JEP-300, and Jenkins-X with JEP-400.
Ideally we would have our own 5xx series or something, but then
JEP-202 would better be renamed JEP-501.

I agree we do not need JEPs for SIGs, but this is not just a SIG like
others proposed (e.g., Jenkins on special platforms)—it is an actual
proposed series of changes, each of which would be a regular JEP.


¹JEP-300 and JEP-400 are listed as “Standards” but this fails to
capture the distinction from regular feature JEPs. I suggest that

https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/blob/master/jep/1/README.adoc#jep-types

be amended with a new category.

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Martin d'Anjou
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez
Hello Carlos,

Interesting initiative. Did you know that the External Workspace Manager Plugin was designed with Cloud Storage in mind? Perhaps that might be useful.
I am interested in knowing where this SIG is headed, but I can make no commitment.

Martin

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Evan Brown
In reply to this post by Carlos Sanchez
+1 SIGn me up!

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:16:26 AM UTC-7, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136

I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Liam Newman
I'm creating the SIG now, following the steps JEP-4 with the PR from Oleg. 
sig-id: cloud-native

Jesse,
Your suggestion re JEP-1 is interesting and accurately points out a rough edge in the current JEP process.
I think this particular structure has come out of the size of some of these JEPs. 
Please start a thread on here and maybe file a PR with suggested changes.  


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 6:27:32 AM UTC-7, Evan Brown wrote:
+1 SIGn me up!

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:16:26 AM UTC-7, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136

I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Oleg Nenashev
Hi Liam,

I have draft for the SIG so I can submit it to save your time.

BR, Oleg

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 20:48 Liam Newman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm creating the SIG now, following the steps JEP-4 with the PR from Oleg. 
sig-id: cloud-native

Jesse,
Your suggestion re JEP-1 is interesting and accurately points out a rough edge in the current JEP process.
I think this particular structure has come out of the size of some of these JEPs. 
Please start a thread on here and maybe file a PR with suggested changes.  


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 6:27:32 AM UTC-7, Evan Brown wrote:
+1 SIGn me up!

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:16:26 AM UTC-7, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Liam Newman
Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jenkins-cloud-native-sig
Gitter: https://gitter.im/jenkinsci/cloud-native-sig

Oleg will submit a PR shortly with the sig page. 


On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 10:50:09 AM UTC-7, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
Hi Liam,

I have draft for the SIG so I can submit it to save your time.

BR, Oleg

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 20:48 Liam Newman <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="9XWUJjfJBQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">bitwi...@...> wrote:
I'm creating the SIG now, following the steps JEP-4 with the PR from Oleg. 
sig-id: cloud-native

Jesse,
Your suggestion re JEP-1 is interesting and accurately points out a rough edge in the current JEP process.
I think this particular structure has come out of the size of some of these JEPs. 
Please start a thread on here and maybe file a PR with suggested changes.  


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 6:27:32 AM UTC-7, Evan Brown wrote:
+1 SIGn me up!

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:16:26 AM UTC-7, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...

<a href="https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fjenkinsci%2Fjep%2Fpull%2F136\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHcP1HHv6wEcUXp2WV4hzqdb1a31Q&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/pull/136

I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Oleg Nenashev

@Carlos, do you want to have a GitHub Team created? If yes, we will need GitHub IDs of all participants.
In such case please create an INFRA ticket and assign it to me.


On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 9:31 PM, Liam Newman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jenkins-cloud-native-sig

Oleg will submit a PR shortly with the sig page. 


On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 10:50:09 AM UTC-7, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
Hi Liam,

I have draft for the SIG so I can submit it to save your time.

BR, Oleg

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 20:48 Liam Newman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm creating the SIG now, following the steps JEP-4 with the PR from Oleg. 
sig-id: cloud-native

Jesse,
Your suggestion re JEP-1 is interesting and accurately points out a rough edge in the current JEP process.
I think this particular structure has come out of the size of some of these JEPs. 
Please start a thread on here and maybe file a PR with suggested changes.  


On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 6:27:32 AM UTC-7, Evan Brown wrote:
+1 SIGn me up!

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:16:26 AM UTC-7, Carlos Sanchez wrote:
Hi there,

I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...


I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.

Thanks

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Daniel Beck

> On 12. Jul 2018, at 20:59, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> @Carlos, do you want to have a GitHub Team created? If yes, we will need GitHub IDs of all participants.
> In such case please create an INFRA ticket and assign it to me.
>

Already done for https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-1706:

https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/cloud-native-sig

Carlos is a team maintainer, so can add and remove people.

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Re: Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group

Carlos Sanchez
Thanks all!

On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:16 PM Daniel Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12. Jul 2018, at 20:59, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> @Carlos, do you want to have a GitHub Team created? If yes, we will need GitHub IDs of all participants.
> In such case please create an INFRA ticket and assign it to me.
>

Already done for https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-1706:

https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/cloud-native-sig

Carlos is a team maintainer, so can add and remove people.

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