Terminology Updates

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Terminology Updates

slide

Hi Everyone,

 

Back in the Jenkins 2.0 days, it was decided (rightfully so) to deprecate the term "slave" as it was used in the Jenkins project. There has been some significant progress made on this effort by many contributors with some remaining effort needing to be done (see the JENKINS-42816 EPIC). The agent terminology cleanup is recognized as a major initiative in the project, and it is listed on the Jenkins Public Roadmap Draft. We have some additional terminology that we would like to look at deprecating and replacing within the Jenkins project.

 

The following terminology are items that we would like to replace with possible options. We would like this discussion to be civil, these words have powerful negative meanings for many people and we want to make sure, as a project, that we are using terms which are not negative. Please reply with opinions on the possible replacements that the Advocacy and Outreach SIG came up with, or others if you have additional ideas. 

 

  • Master ->

    • Host

    • Server

    • Control Plane

  • Whitelist/Blacklist ->

    • Allowlist/Denylist

    • Allowlist/Blocklist

 

If there are other terms that you have seen in the Jenkins project that may need to be deprecated and replaced, please contact the Jenkins Governance Board members ([hidden email]) with your concerns.

 

Regards,

 

Alex Earl

Jenkins Governance Board Member



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Re: Terminology Updates

Marky Jackson
First and foremost, this is extremely important and I am thankful to be a part of a community addressing this. I want to thank those that protested and continue to do so. 
I am so sorry these offensive terms are even a thing and I am even more sorry any person has to suffer.
My vote is:
- Host
- Allowlist/Denylist

On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Slide <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi Everyone,

 

Back in the Jenkins 2.0 days, it was decided (rightfully so) to deprecate the term "slave" as it was used in the Jenkins project. There has been some significant progress made on this effort by many contributors with some remaining effort needing to be done (see the JENKINS-42816 EPIC). The agent terminology cleanup is recognized as a major initiative in the project, and it is listed on the Jenkins Public Roadmap Draft. We have some additional terminology that we would like to look at deprecating and replacing within the Jenkins project.

 

The following terminology are items that we would like to replace with possible options. We would like this discussion to be civil, these words have powerful negative meanings for many people and we want to make sure, as a project, that we are using terms which are not negative. Please reply with opinions on the possible replacements that the Advocacy and Outreach SIG came up with, or others if you have additional ideas. 

 

  • Master ->

    • Host

    • Server

    • Control Plane

  • Whitelist/Blacklist ->

    • Allowlist/Denylist

    • Allowlist/Blocklist

 

If there are other terms that you have seen in the Jenkins project that may need to be deprecated and replaced, please contact the Jenkins Governance Board members ([hidden email]) with your concerns.

 

Regards,

 

Alex Earl

Jenkins Governance Board Member



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Re: Terminology Updates

Richard Bywater-3
In reply to this post by slide
Can I suggest "Controller" as a possible replacement for Master? Host/Server are a little too ambiguous in this context and I don't really like the term "Control Plane".

Allowlist/Denylist would be my suggested replacements for the lists although personally I'd prefer it written as AllowList/DenyList anywhere it appears in mixed case :)

Richard.

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 15:35, Slide <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

 

Back in the Jenkins 2.0 days, it was decided (rightfully so) to deprecate the term "slave" as it was used in the Jenkins project. There has been some significant progress made on this effort by many contributors with some remaining effort needing to be done (see the JENKINS-42816 EPIC). The agent terminology cleanup is recognized as a major initiative in the project, and it is listed on the Jenkins Public Roadmap Draft. We have some additional terminology that we would like to look at deprecating and replacing within the Jenkins project.

 

The following terminology are items that we would like to replace with possible options. We would like this discussion to be civil, these words have powerful negative meanings for many people and we want to make sure, as a project, that we are using terms which are not negative. Please reply with opinions on the possible replacements that the Advocacy and Outreach SIG came up with, or others if you have additional ideas. 

 

  • Master ->

    • Host

    • Server

    • Control Plane

  • Whitelist/Blacklist ->

    • Allowlist/Denylist

    • Allowlist/Blocklist

 

If there are other terms that you have seen in the Jenkins project that may need to be deprecated and replaced, please contact the Jenkins Governance Board members ([hidden email]) with your concerns.

 

Regards,

 

Alex Earl

Jenkins Governance Board Member



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Re: Terminology Updates

Marky Jackson
In reply to this post by slide
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

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Re: Terminology Updates

Richard Bywater-3
Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

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Re: Terminology Updates

Marky Jackson
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

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Re: Terminology Updates

Oleg Nenashev
I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.

I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
  • Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
  • "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="wXy_YwnOAQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">ric...@...> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="wXy_YwnOAQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">marky....@...> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="wXy_YwnOAQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">ric...@...> wrote:
>

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Re: Terminology Updates

Jeff Thompson

My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.

Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.

"AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.

In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.

Jeff

On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.

I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
  • Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
  • "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="wXy_YwnOAQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;" moz-do-not-send="true">ric...@...> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="wXy_YwnOAQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;" moz-do-not-send="true">marky....@...> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="wXy_YwnOAQAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;" moz-do-not-send="true">ric...@...> wrote:
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Gavin Mogan
Control plane works but is a mouthfull. Controller works, but as others pointed out, could easily be confused in the k8s world.

the other two (Host and Server) are way too generic to convey meaning if you don't know the system.

You could go silly like POTUJ (President of the United Jenkins) or JOTUJ (Jenkins of the United Jenkins).
Jenkins Brain
Jenkins President
Jenkins CEO
Jenkins Manager
Jenkins Foreman
Jenkins Governor
Jenkins Super / Super Jenkins
Jenkins Taskmaster
Jenkins Boss
Jenkins Leader
Jenkins Overlord


I personally think without the slave context, master is pretty accurate. To be absolutely honest, if it has more syllables than the current, people are super likely to stick with the existing wording (Slave-1 vs Agent-2) cause its easier to say/remember.

Gavin


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.

Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.

"AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.

In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.

Jeff

On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.

I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
  • Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
  • "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Mark Waite-2
In reply to this post by Jeff Thompson
My favorite is Jenkins server.  I'll use whatever term is ultimately selected, but "Jenkins server" is easier for me than "Control Plane".

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.

Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.

"AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.

In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.

Jeff

On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.

I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
  • Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
  • "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Vlad Silverman
I agree, “Jenkins Server” reflects primary functionality and definitely makes sense.

Thx, Vlad

On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mark Waite <[hidden email]> wrote:

My favorite is Jenkins server.  I'll use whatever term is ultimately selected, but "Jenkins server" is easier for me than "Control Plane".

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.

Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.

"AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.

In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.

Jeff

On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.

I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
  • Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
  • "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Matt Sicker
I also like Jenkins Server as a simple name.

Other ideas: JenkinsD (like SystemD or any daemon), Jenkins Principal
(matches the principal/agent paradigm of agents executing code on
behalf of the principal).

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:37 PM Vlad Silverman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I agree, “Jenkins Server” reflects primary functionality and definitely makes sense.
>
> Thx, Vlad
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mark Waite <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My favorite is Jenkins server.  I'll use whatever term is ultimately selected, but "Jenkins server" is easier for me than "Control Plane".
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.
>>
>> Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.
>>
>> "AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.
>>
>> In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>>
>> I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.
>>
>> I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
>>
>> Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
>> "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
>>
>> My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg
>>
>> On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?
>>>
>>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.
>>>>
>>>> > On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
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>>
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>>
>>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Marky Jackson
I like Jenkins Server too

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Matt Sicker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I also like Jenkins Server as a simple name.
>
> Other ideas: JenkinsD (like SystemD or any daemon), Jenkins Principal
> (matches the principal/agent paradigm of agents executing code on
> behalf of the principal).
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:37 PM Vlad Silverman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I agree, “Jenkins Server” reflects primary functionality and definitely makes sense.
>>
>> Thx, Vlad
>>
>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mark Waite <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> My favorite is Jenkins server.  I'll use whatever term is ultimately selected, but "Jenkins server" is easier for me than "Control Plane".
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.
>>>
>>> Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.
>>>
>>> "AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.
>>>
>>> In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>>>
>>> I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.
>>>
>>> I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
>>>
>>> Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
>>> "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
>>>
>>> My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Oleg
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAAy0hwcrbnGua2b3sHamE2AG1r3z8cXBxA02%2B4NrQHMWqQjzyg%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
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>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/4ffdf650-4bb4-4878-a629-4e49c3ac06b5o%40googlegroups.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker
> Senior Software Engineer, CloudBees
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

slide
Jenkins Server makes sense to me as well. I'll add as a topic for the next Governance meeting. Please also make sure and weigh in on AllowList/DenyList and it's other derivatives.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 10:43 Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I like Jenkins Server too

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Matt Sicker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I also like Jenkins Server as a simple name.
>
> Other ideas: JenkinsD (like SystemD or any daemon), Jenkins Principal
> (matches the principal/agent paradigm of agents executing code on
> behalf of the principal).
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:37 PM Vlad Silverman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I agree, “Jenkins Server” reflects primary functionality and definitely makes sense.
>>
>> Thx, Vlad
>>
>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Mark Waite <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> My favorite is Jenkins server.  I'll use whatever term is ultimately selected, but "Jenkins server" is easier for me than "Control Plane".
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.
>>>
>>> Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.
>>>
>>> "AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.
>>>
>>> In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>>>
>>> I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.
>>>
>>> I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
>>>
>>> Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
>>> "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
>>>
>>> My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Oleg
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAAy0hwcrbnGua2b3sHamE2AG1r3z8cXBxA02%2B4NrQHMWqQjzyg%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker
> Senior Software Engineer, CloudBees
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Jeff Pearce
In reply to this post by slide

My vote:

  • Master -> Controller (Host and Server are too broad, and Control Plane is to verbose)
  • Whitelist/Blacklist -> Allowlist/Blocklist

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 8:34 PM Slide <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

 

Back in the Jenkins 2.0 days, it was decided (rightfully so) to deprecate the term "slave" as it was used in the Jenkins project. There has been some significant progress made on this effort by many contributors with some remaining effort needing to be done (see the JENKINS-42816 EPIC). The agent terminology cleanup is recognized as a major initiative in the project, and it is listed on the Jenkins Public Roadmap Draft. We have some additional terminology that we would like to look at deprecating and replacing within the Jenkins project.

 

The following terminology are items that we would like to replace with possible options. We would like this discussion to be civil, these words have powerful negative meanings for many people and we want to make sure, as a project, that we are using terms which are not negative. Please reply with opinions on the possible replacements that the Advocacy and Outreach SIG came up with, or others if you have additional ideas. 

 

  • Master ->

    • Host

    • Server

    • Control Plane

  • Whitelist/Blacklist ->

    • Allowlist/Denylist

    • Allowlist/Blocklist

 

If there are other terms that you have seen in the Jenkins project that may need to be deprecated and replaced, please contact the Jenkins Governance Board members ([hidden email]) with your concerns.

 

Regards,

 

Alex Earl

Jenkins Governance Board Member



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Re: Terminology Updates

Richard Bywater-3
In reply to this post by Gavin Mogan
> I personally think without the slave context, master is pretty accurate

That's a good point. I did a quick search and noticed that Apache Mesos renamed to agents a few years back but left the main controller as being a "master" so there is some precedent there.

Richard.

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 05:05, 'Gavin Mogan' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]> wrote:
Control plane works but is a mouthfull. Controller works, but as others pointed out, could easily be confused in the k8s world.

the other two (Host and Server) are way too generic to convey meaning if you don't know the system.

You could go silly like POTUJ (President of the United Jenkins) or JOTUJ (Jenkins of the United Jenkins).
Jenkins Brain
Jenkins President
Jenkins CEO
Jenkins Manager
Jenkins Foreman
Jenkins Governor
Jenkins Super / Super Jenkins
Jenkins Taskmaster
Jenkins Boss
Jenkins Leader
Jenkins Overlord


I personally think without the slave context, master is pretty accurate. To be absolutely honest, if it has more syllables than the current, people are super likely to stick with the existing wording (Slave-1 vs Agent-2) cause its easier to say/remember.

Gavin


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:13 AM Jeff Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

My favorite is "Jenkins server" or something like that. There are already existing usages and it's reasonably explanatory. Something with "manager" could also work, but I don't find the term as clean and clear.

Outside of bias issues, one of the problems with whitelist and blacklist is that the terms don't really say what they do. Sometimes the interpretation depends on which way you're looking at it. Somewhat similar to whether a class hierarchy goes up or down.

"AllowList" and "DenyList" are good matching pairs that convey more semantics about what they do.

In other discussions we have noted that not all usages of whitelist/blacklist fall into the same behavioral meaning. Sometimes we will need to use different terminology to better convey the meaning.

Jeff

On 6/12/20 3:20 AM, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
I am +1 for changing the terminology, and I encourage Jenkins contributors to participate in this effort. It is not something we could change in a minute, but we could do a gradual cleanup and improve the overall documentation while doing so.

I am -1 w.r.t "host" due to the following reasons:
  • Host term is very generic, it has thousands of usages in Jenkins https://github.com/search?q=org%3Ajenkinsci+host&type=Code. Choosing this term will require a careful cleanup to avoid confusion in user documentation and the codebase
  • "agent host" is often used to describe target hosts for outbound agents
My suggestion would be to consider a "Jenkins server" term. You can see that such a term is already used in our codebase, website and on 3rd party resources.

Best regards,
Oleg

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 6:42:34 AM UTC+2, Marky Jackson wrote:
It is a suggestion for consideration if you would like.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:35 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good point. I actually wonder if Manager is a reasonable replacement?

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 16:04, Marky Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
The concern with controller may be a conflict with Kubernetes on Jenkins given the same name. This was originally my suggestion but than I remembered I was also part of renaming in that community.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:02 PM, Richard Bywater <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
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Re: Terminology Updates

Mez Pahlan
Why not extend the butler analogy? Majordomo. Or MD for short?

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Re: Terminology Updates

Arnaud Héritier
In reply to this post by slide
I prefer server. It’s generic but short. 

Allowlist is ok. I have no preference between denylist and blocklist. Depending of the context where it is used it could perhaps be includes/excludes. 

Arnaud 

Le ven. 12 juin 2020 à 05:34, Slide <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Hi Everyone,

 

Back in the Jenkins 2.0 days, it was decided (rightfully so) to deprecate the term "slave" as it was used in the Jenkins project. There has been some significant progress made on this effort by many contributors with some remaining effort needing to be done (see the JENKINS-42816 EPIC). The agent terminology cleanup is recognized as a major initiative in the project, and it is listed on the Jenkins Public Roadmap Draft. We have some additional terminology that we would like to look at deprecating and replacing within the Jenkins project.

 

The following terminology are items that we would like to replace with possible options. We would like this discussion to be civil, these words have powerful negative meanings for many people and we want to make sure, as a project, that we are using terms which are not negative. Please reply with opinions on the possible replacements that the Advocacy and Outreach SIG came up with, or others if you have additional ideas. 

 

  • Master ->

    • Host

    • Server

    • Control Plane

  • Whitelist/Blacklist ->

    • Allowlist/Denylist

    • Allowlist/Blocklist

 

If there are other terms that you have seen in the Jenkins project that may need to be deprecated and replaced, please contact the Jenkins Governance Board members ([hidden email]) with your concerns.

 

Regards,

 

Alex Earl

Jenkins Governance Board Member

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Re: Terminology Updates

Daniel Beck
In reply to this post by slide


> On 12. Jun 2020, at 20:05, Slide <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Jenkins Server makes sense to me as well. I'll add as a topic for the next Governance meeting.

It seems as if this thread so far lacks considerations regarding the implementation of such a decision. This is concerning because a superficially good solution may well turn out to bring challenges when it comes to implementing them.

For example, right now, master is at /computer/(master)/ and its self-label (to build jobs on it) is 'master'. What would those look like with the term 'Jenkins Server'? URLs with spaces in them are annoying due to percent-encoding. While labels support spaces, it's a fairly annoying syntax to type and autocompletion for them doesn't work properly. IOW, this is going to be more difficult if we choose a composite term.

Similarly, it could make sense for us to consider how the term would be translated into some of the more commonly used languages. Some of the proposed terms are probably not easily translated. ('Server' should be fine as it's such a common term in tech. 'Majordomo' OTOH?)

It might even make sense to separate the "UI" part from the "node" part: Jenkins server makes sense for the former. A different term might make more sense for the latter (and it's even clearer with terms like 'controller': the master node controls nothing). 'Primary' could work except it sounds like it's a good idea to build there. 'Local' perhaps?


> Please also make sure and weigh in on AllowList/DenyList and it's other derivatives.


FWIW since I've struggled to think of notable examples in Jenkins outside system properties and basically deprecated features like agent-to-master ('agent-to-jenkins-server'?) security: In-Process Script Approval (Script Security) has whitelists.



P.S.: But perhaps let's throw some consideration about the scope of necessary changes of any term into the mix so we don't end up with a never-ending mess like for 'agent', but are prepared to implement this more quickly.

Assuming a similar scope (fix all the UI, fix the few locations in the code that aren't breaking changes, fix Javadoc, skip breaking code changes and introduce compatibility fallbacks like supporting both 'agent.jar' and 'slave.jar' URLs):

- So far we probably should add the label 'master' to that node (only) when upgrading from an older Jenkins. Otherwise builds may be blocked.
- Show an admin monitor if any other node has the new self-label for the replacement term. This can result in unexpected node assignment decisions.
- …?

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Re: Terminology Updates

James Nord-2
Jenkins server is ambiguous it has as many minus votes as I can put (limited to one)

login to the Jenkins server and run service start Jenkins.....

login to the Jenkins server and create a new job

whatever we choose it can not be confused with the host/is/server/machine that the is process runs in.

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