Terminology Updates
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+1 for allowlist/denylist to be consistent with what other communities are using. I have 3 suggestions to replace Master: 1. Director 2. Expeditor 3. Coordinator Thoughts? I was thinking about what a Master does, and it seems similar to the Expeditor in a restaurant kitchen. The Master getting build requests and sending it to the individual build agents is similar to an Expeditor sending different items to the different food stations in a restaurant. Cheers, Tammy On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:05 PM Tracy Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Julie Ng
Le 16/06/2020 à 09:42, Julie Ng a écrit :
> +1 to everyone who suggested separating out UI and avoiding master > altogether, i.e. log into Jenkins Web UI > > As for the deployable itself, my personal favorites are > > - "orchestrator" as a safe choice > - "conductor" suggestion from Angélique. Maybe we can establish a new > vocab for Jenkins/CI/CD, so Conductor is equated with Jenkins just as > "controller" is equated with Kubernetes. Hello, "orchestrator" sounds to me like a container management system such as Kubernetes and I find it a bit misleading as to what Jenkins is achieving. As a non native english speaker, I also find the term difficult to read or write. I really like the musical analogy Angélique proposed with "conductor", I guess "director" could be a straight forward term as well and might be even more understandable for non musical/non native english speakers. ;) -- Antoine "hashar" Musso -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/8699aba9-3cc9-f483-1b93-004e98bf89f5%40free.fr. |
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In reply to this post by Tracy Miranda
+1 for allowlist/denylist to be consistent with what other communities are using.
I have 3 suggestions to replace Master: 1. Director 2. Expeditor 3. Coordinator Thoughts? I was thinking about what a Master does, and it seems similar to the Expeditor in a restaurant kitchen. The Master getting build requests and sending it to the individual build agents is similar to an Expeditor sending different items to the different food stations in a restaurant. On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 4:05:58 PM UTC-4 Tracy Miranda wrote:
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I started a Google Doc to capture proposals and votes
-- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?usp=sharing On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 12:30:47 AM UTC+2, Tammy Fox wrote: +1 for allowlist/denylist to be consistent with what other communities are using. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/a12075ca-48e0-4c55-bc8b-0eee84a210d3o%40googlegroups.com. |
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Another vote for allowlist/denylist (or blocklist). Controller/Agent is a sensible replacement for the master/slave paradigm and has the benefit of being self-describing. I don't see that there should be any confusion between Jenkins controller and Kubernetes controller any more than there would be with any other type of controller. "Server" should apply to the host, IMO. Tony On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 3:30 PM Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Hi All, We had a discussion about this in the Governance Meeting last week and came to the following decisions to move forward. We have had several recommendations/ideas for replacing the term "master" with another term. Ideas such as host, server, controller and others. We could not come to a consensus in the Governance Meeting, so we propose that we set a deadline for suggestions from this thread, then the Governance Board will select 10 of the suggestions for a Condorcet Internet Voting Service vote (Mark Waite will be the technical lead on setting this up). The poll will be used as input for the Governance Board to make the final decision. I propose that we keep suggestions going in this thread until July 1st after which the Governance Board can select the 10 suggestions that will go into the vote. We also realize that one term doesn't always meet the needs of the scope of the usage of the term. We are starting a discussion to update the glossary (https://www.jenkins.io/doc/book/glossary/) with recommended terms for different use cases (e.g., Jenkins Web Interface, Jenkins Server Application). The discussion around "blacklist/whitelist" resulted in consensus that we definitely need to deprecate and replace these terms. The context in which these terms appear can require different replacements than just one specific set. Simple replacements for "blacklist/whitelist" would be "denylist/allowlist", but since context matters, we are not requiring one specific set of terms be used for replacement, just that "blacklist/whitelist" be replaced with acceptable terms. If you have questions about the acceptability of replacement terms, please ask in the developer mailing list. Once we decide on a term replacement for "master" we would like to focus on user facing places first like docs, web interface, etc., but the goal is to replace everything over time. The same priorities exist for "blacklist/whitelist". If you have not made suggestions and would like to, please reply to this email and I will collect the suggestions in the Google Doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-8myIWOZZktR0HNtbFIiNA0RfDCvkfKKuNI0C3wcvbo/edit?ts=5eea6706#) that Oleg created. Thanks! Alex Jenkins Governance Board Member On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 2:18 AM Tony Noble <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Terminology Updates
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In reply to this post by Angélique Jard
As a native French speaker too, I fear that "conductor" would be
difficult to translate in French. With its "musical director" meaning, it would be "chef d'orchestre", which is so explicit that it leaves little room for a figurative sense (and it's also really long). The word "conducteur" exists in French, but not with this meaning (it's either an electrical wire, or a car driver; none of which being a good analogy for the work Jenkins does). To stay in the same lexical field, I would rather go with "maestro" (a skilled / well-known conductor), because this word would be understood as-is at least by Italian (obviously), English, French, and Spanish speakers (maybe German speakers too, maybe others). Plus, for people used to the historical Jenkins terminology, it gives an etymological hint that it is indeed the new word for "master", and not a new/different concept. Now, that being said, you can't go wrong with "controller" I think, so it would have my preference too. I don't think the potential confusion with k8s controllers is an issue (when writing about Jenkins deployment on K8S, use "K8S controller" / "Jenkins controller" to avoid any ambiguity). The word is so widely used in IT that we can assume most languages already have a well established translation for it. In French, it's "contrôleur" (fun fact: the most common meaning for "contrôleur", outside of the IT field, is "bus/train conductor"). Anyway, I guess my point here is that picking the new terminology should be done with i18n in mind. Maybe double-check with active i18n contributors for the most spoken languages that they have no issue with the candidate words, or something like that. Thomas. Le 15/06/2020 à 17:03, Angélique Jard a écrit : > My preference goes to "controller", "server" make me think somehow to > the hardware physical machine. "Coordinator" is fine also (in the link > tools.ietf in previous post) but a bit hard to pronounce. > > As a non english native speaker (but french), I have some issue with > "valet" and "majordomo" which have fix gender in french and are all > male. I know that it's not like that in english but I think it's better > to tell it now. > > As a music player I also like "conductor" (as musical director) this is > how I see my Jenkins instance when I use it, that orchestrate agents, > Jenkinsfile could be the music sheet :) .... > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:00:27 PM UTC+2 Antonio Muñiz wrote: > > In spanish the term "Master" ("Maestro"), when used in isolation (no > "slave" in the context), has no negative connotations. Its main use > is to describe someone very skilled in some matter (often used for > artisans). > I might be suffering of language bias, just wanted to give some "non > english native speaker" perspective to the conversation. > > El lun., 15 jun. 2020 a las 7:56, Justin Harringa > (<[hidden email]>) escribió: > > Personally I thank the community for having already starting > down this path. > > I tend to like leader or controller from > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-knodel-terminology-00.html#rfc.section.1.1.1 > but I could also see server working. The difficulty I would see > with primary/active is that folks who run Jenkins would have a > bit of a conflict of terminology there. > > Take care all. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to [hidden email]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/3411fed5-7e21-454a-b285-f719f07c1b3ao%40googlegroups.com. > > > > -- > * Antonio Manuel Muñiz > * amunizmartin.com <http://amunizmartin.com> > * [hidden email] > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/56742697-234e-4d29-b613-fcc13d072ed7n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/56742697-234e-4d29-b613-fcc13d072ed7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/f6b87d27-763f-87f6-dfbd-5d77b410af43%40free.fr. |
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In reply to this post by slide
First, thank you for consdering changes in language. It's coming at a good time. To replace master, what about "main"? If not, "orchestrator" or "director"? I'd like to pile on with the other folks that AllowList and DenyList are descriptive and appropriate. I don't like "BlockList" because it isn't as related to Allow as Deny is. There's also plenty of precedent in other projects - see the Apache web server's routine use of Allow and Deny. Blocklist is also too similar to Blacklist both in writing and audibly. On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 1:51:42 PM UTC-4, slide wrote:
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In reply to this post by Thomas de Grenier de Latour
"maestro" is problematic in our context because it's too similar to the word we're trying to replace. Because of our usage history, that's a bigger issue than it might be in other contexts. In English, though they may have nuanced common usages, they're both basically the same word. They just got to modern English via different paths. They both derive from the same Latin root. We would be better to select something noticeably different. We should definitely keep i18n in mind in choosing a name. Jeff On 6/24/20 4:49 PM, Thomas de Grenier
de Latour wrote:
As a native French speaker too, I fear that "conductor" would be difficult to translate in French. With its "musical director" meaning, it would be "chef d'orchestre", which is so explicit that it leaves little room for a figurative sense (and it's also really long). The word "conducteur" exists in French, but not with this meaning (it's either an electrical wire, or a car driver; none of which being a good analogy for the work Jenkins does).-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/d17f8dd2-0690-064c-cb9b-2f6cb87f9fc8%40cloudbees.com. |
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There is heightened sensitivity to the naming of things, the meaning behind them and the meaning read into them. I applaud the Jenkins community work to address these matters. I first encountered the master / slave terminology when I first tried to configure an IDE drive on a IBM PC clone. Then the context was "Master Controller" and "Slave Controller". Perhaps my youthful naiveté did not associate the full qualified terms with racial imagery to which the lone words are ascribed. When I first saw the plain "Master / Slave" usage in Jenkins, I definitely made that negative association. If there exists more neutral terminology, I am all for it.
The same goes for BlackList / WhiteList. Absolutely support the AllowList / DenyList pairing in its place.
The transition to node/agent works well, and it is the executors that do the work. So, what for "the master" ? Some disliked
Orchestrator, Controller, Host, Server, all for legitimate reasons.
I see "the master" as having two contexts. There is the Administrative context (configuration, plugins etc.), that determine focus, capability, delegation. Then there's the context of those tasks that are necessary to execute "on the master".
An elegant parallel for the first would be "Executive". That's our Org's (or Jenkins') " Leadership" capability. That's how it works in my Org, with an Executive (at HQ), multiple satellite offices (Nodes/Agents) and then the workers (executors).
What about the tasks run on master? It's still executors doing
the work, but its sounds like the job for a "Concierge" to coordinate
and satisfy the needs of the clients and delegate as necessary. Our Org has a
"Concierge" that functions similar to a Concierge at a hotel that most people
would be familiar with, but in an office setting
My recommendation: refer to the "Host/Server" context
as the "Executive", replace
the "master" usage context with "Concierge". The terms and roles are well defined, should translate reasonably well or are understood as-is, have neutral connotations and are not used in other tools in the CI space that I am aware of.
Ian On Thursday, 25 June 2020 15:36:05 UTC-7, Jeff Thompson wrote:
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Just a reminder, this is the last day that we will be accepting suggestions. If you have an opinion on terms, please comment. On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 8:25 AM Ian W <[hidden email]> wrote:
Website: http://earl-of-code.com
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how about monolith 🤔 for the 'master'
it may be modular in terms of plugins and architecture but it's not micro services. whilst some parts (fingerprint storage, artifact storage) are pluggable we still have the one big thing. other equally bizarre / useful suggestions include: * comptroller * orchestrator (may have already been suggested apologies if it has) * sneer (it's the collective noun for butlers) it would be good if used for the master node to disuade stop people using it * trustee * 'legacy_unsafe' (for the master node/executor label) * "M" (as in James bond, head of all the agents) * case officer (handles agents) * director (tells the agents what to do) * "C" the head of MI6 (not "M" as the bond movie make you believe) /James -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/7be22b22-8575-4b8c-8bac-036e3624bd15o%40googlegroups.com. |
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My proposals for "master":
Besides this I'm find with "Jenkins server" or simply "server". James Nord schrieb am Dienstag, 30. Juni 2020 um 22:06:29 UTC+2: how about monolith 🤔 for the 'master' You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/9c289226-7882-4c9d-a816-6e813ef9c7b4n%40googlegroups.com. |
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Good suggestions overall so far, so I can't really contribute to more suggestions. Just that Blocklist reminds me too much of Blockchain, so I want to add my veto to that term :) /B Den fre 10 juli 2020 kl 20:31 skrev 'Martin Schmude' via Jenkins Developers <[hidden email]>:
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From the shortlisted options selected by the governance board, I see words that in many languages have both a male and a female variant. The "default" version implicitly implies the the "male" variant. I know we are already taking a lot of different aspects into account, so I want to bring to attention this implicit association/unconscious bias that we may be having when choosing some of these words.
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On 7/16/20 7:52 AM, Runxia Ye wrote:
That's a good point. Do you happen to have any suggestions on how to deal with this issue? I know a little bit of Spanish and am familiar with gendered nouns there. I don't have any idea how people are addressing bias in these languages. Jeff You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/cb5eb227-9180-c03e-f6eb-974a72515473%40cloudbees.com. |
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Unfortunately I don't know how others are dealing with this issue. But I would cast my vote for one where I think the word is pretty gender neutral in all languages I know. On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 7:07:00 PM UTC+2 [hidden email] wrote:
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The Jenkins terminology poll for the “master” term replacement is open at https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/vote.pl?id=E_1bd92a17371a1ca5&akey=f82b79a50f54ad87 . We would appreciate your votes! If you are interested to participate, please submit your choice by July 29, 14:00 PM UTC. Thanks, On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 1:20:42 AM UTC-6 [hidden email] wrote:
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Hi all,
I showed up late to the party, so I'll accept a snub gracefully, but I was intrigued by the problem of replacing the term "master" and have one further term I would like to put in the poll if at all possible. Dispatcher. This would most correctly apply to the function of taking jobs off the queue and handing them to nodes. What we today know as master would therefore consist of dispatcher and zero-or-one agents. What I think distinguishes this suggestion is that it connotes a service provided to agents in collaboration rather than a hierarchical power relationship. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/b8487054-6383-4dec-be3e-29103215cc09o%40googlegroups.com. |
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Unfortunately, new terms can't be included in the the votiing. The voting is already in progress at
https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/vote.pl?id=E_1bd92a17371a1ca5&akey=f82b79a50f54ad87 . The governance board is using the voting as input for the final decision on the term to be used. On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:15 AM Steve Carter <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi all, You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAO49JtHpJAc1EqwDBkJJoYziOPMUC3w5yij6WeZtJJqjVU7c3Q%40mail.gmail.com. |
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