Quantcast

The future of the patron program

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

The future of the patron program

Daniel Beck
Hi everyone,

This is about the patron program:
https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Patron+of+Jenkins+program

While we have never 'reviewed' the program as described on the wiki page, the project meeting has continued to approve donor messages whenever there were changes, and patrons have continued to donate, and we've shown their messages.

However, we're only showing these messages on the wiki. This was fine when the wiki was all we had, as the site was basically a download link and the changelog. But now, we have a real site and we're in the process of moving a lot of content out of the wiki into that. For example, most of SECURITY wiki (advisories) has been moved to jenkins.io, parts of the project documentation (e.g. governance document, how to contribute), and some of the user documentation is now on jenkins.io. This trend will continue while we improve documentation.

A lot of that content still references wiki pages, and the wiki will never go away, but we're definitely deemphasizing it, at least for Jenkins users who don't contribute to the project.

So the question now is, how should we proceed here? I see the following options:

- Implement the patron messages also on jenkins.io and/or the issue tracker
- End the patron program

I've also put this topic on the agenda of the next project meeting:
https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda

I'm looking forward to your responses.

Daniel


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/9DA68E59-2542-4729-AF76-34DC3A2534B9%40beckweb.net.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The future of the patron program

Oleg Nenashev
Hi,

Before making the decisions, it would be great if the Jenkins Board shares info a kind of the Jenkins budget stats for previous years. It is hard to estimate how much the program contributes compared to other sources (I'd guess it contributes **much**). So I am not sure we can afford canceling the Patron program taking the Jenkins infrastructure costs into account.

Thanks in advance,
Oleg

воскресенье, 26 февраля 2017 г., 22:03:43 UTC+1 пользователь Daniel Beck написал:
Hi everyone,

This is about the patron program:
<a href="https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Patron+of+Jenkins+program" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwiki.jenkins-ci.org%2Fdisplay%2FJENKINS%2FPatron%2Bof%2BJenkins%2Bprogram\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFbpncP5Dk-_PHUZkk2JKhmALij5A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwiki.jenkins-ci.org%2Fdisplay%2FJENKINS%2FPatron%2Bof%2BJenkins%2Bprogram\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFbpncP5Dk-_PHUZkk2JKhmALij5A&#39;;return true;">https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Patron+of+Jenkins+program

While we have never 'reviewed' the program as described on the wiki page, the project meeting has continued to approve donor messages whenever there were changes, and patrons have continued to donate, and we've shown their messages.

However, we're only showing these messages on the wiki. This was fine when the wiki was all we had, as the site was basically a download link and the changelog. But now, we have a real site and we're in the process of moving a lot of content out of the wiki into that. For example, most of SECURITY wiki (advisories) has been moved to <a href="http://jenkins.io" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjenkins.io\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFxN3TNcVz4ABxnDGK3ixwttT1E1A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjenkins.io\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFxN3TNcVz4ABxnDGK3ixwttT1E1A&#39;;return true;">jenkins.io, parts of the project documentation (e.g. governance document, how to contribute), and some of the user documentation is now on <a href="http://jenkins.io" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjenkins.io\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFxN3TNcVz4ABxnDGK3ixwttT1E1A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjenkins.io\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFxN3TNcVz4ABxnDGK3ixwttT1E1A&#39;;return true;">jenkins.io. This trend will continue while we improve documentation.

A lot of that content still references wiki pages, and the wiki will never go away, but we're definitely deemphasizing it, at least for Jenkins users who don't contribute to the project.

So the question now is, how should we proceed here? I see the following options:

- Implement the patron messages also on <a href="http://jenkins.io" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjenkins.io\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFxN3TNcVz4ABxnDGK3ixwttT1E1A&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fjenkins.io\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFxN3TNcVz4ABxnDGK3ixwttT1E1A&#39;;return true;">jenkins.io and/or the issue tracker
- End the patron program

I've also put this topic on the agenda of the next project meeting:
<a href="https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwiki.jenkins-ci.org%2Fdisplay%2FJENKINS%2FGovernance%2BMeeting%2BAgenda\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFSZkMx7V3Fpwin0qRTctYPiy5KhQ&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwiki.jenkins-ci.org%2Fdisplay%2FJENKINS%2FGovernance%2BMeeting%2BAgenda\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFSZkMx7V3Fpwin0qRTctYPiy5KhQ&#39;;return true;">https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda

I'm looking forward to your responses.

Daniel


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/45ee0218-e07a-4682-a940-7017b126be00%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The future of the patron program

Daniel Beck

> On 27.02.2017, at 23:56, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> it would be great if the Jenkins Board shares info a kind of the Jenkins budget stats for previous years. It is hard to estimate how much the program contributes compared to other sources (I'd guess it contributes **much**). So I am not sure we can afford canceling the Patron program taking the Jenkins infrastructure costs into account.

Below are excerpts of SPI treasurer reports. It looks to me like we're not depending on having the donations from the Patron program come in regularly. Note that we are also affiliated with FFIS in Germany, but AFAICT they have no public reports. It's probably not nearly that much, I assume low 4 digits.

I asked rtyler whether he could tell me the reason for the very high expenses last year (first item below), and he mentioned that major project expenses are GitHub, certificates, some stickers, and…:

[2017-02-28 23:25:02]  <rtyler> in 2016 I also put in a reimbursement for a few thousand worth of costs I hadn't bothered submitting for years

[2017-02-28 23:26:53]  <rtyler> our regular burn rate I think is probably less than 2k a year if we run cheap

----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-November/003598.html
Treasurer's report as of 2016-08 (the newest there currently is)

== Per project summaries 2016 year to date, ending 2016/09/01 ==

=== jenkins ===
         debit         credit          total
--------------------------------------------
             0   23423.62 USD   23423.62 USD  Equity:Opening Balance
   6012.18 USD              0   -6012.18 USD  Expenses
    158.85 USD              0    -158.85 USD    CPFee
   3392.88 USD              0   -3392.88 USD    Other
   2460.45 USD              0   -2460.45 USD    Reimbursement
    233.00 USD    4660.00 USD    4427.00 USD  Income:Donations
--------------------------------------------
   6245.18 USD   28083.62 USD   21838.44 USD


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-February/003413.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2015-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   23,423.62


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2015-February/003358.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2014-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   21,710.91


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2014-April/003328.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2013-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   11,038.84


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/2ECBD7AC-C21B-45DE-9D55-0A9D215AFF70%40beckweb.net.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The future of the patron program

Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Administrator
We talked about this in the project meeting today and one of the questions was to find out the actual numbers of donations and how much is from patrons.


Our cash balance at the end of 2016 was about $27,000: http://www.spi-inc.org/treasurer/reports/201612/#index49h4

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:17 PM Daniel Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 27.02.2017, at 23:56, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> it would be great if the Jenkins Board shares info a kind of the Jenkins budget stats for previous years. It is hard to estimate how much the program contributes compared to other sources (I'd guess it contributes **much**). So I am not sure we can afford canceling the Patron program taking the Jenkins infrastructure costs into account.

Below are excerpts of SPI treasurer reports. It looks to me like we're not depending on having the donations from the Patron program come in regularly. Note that we are also affiliated with FFIS in Germany, but AFAICT they have no public reports. It's probably not nearly that much, I assume low 4 digits.

I asked rtyler whether he could tell me the reason for the very high expenses last year (first item below), and he mentioned that major project expenses are GitHub, certificates, some stickers, and…:

[2017-02-28 23:25:02]  <rtyler> in 2016 I also put in a reimbursement for a few thousand worth of costs I hadn't bothered submitting for years

[2017-02-28 23:26:53]  <rtyler> our regular burn rate I think is probably less than 2k a year if we run cheap

----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-November/003598.html
Treasurer's report as of 2016-08 (the newest there currently is)

== Per project summaries 2016 year to date, ending 2016/09/01 ==

=== jenkins ===
         debit         credit          total
--------------------------------------------
             0   23423.62 USD   23423.62 USD  Equity:Opening Balance
   6012.18 USD              0   -6012.18 USD  Expenses
    158.85 USD              0    -158.85 USD    CPFee
   3392.88 USD              0   -3392.88 USD    Other
   2460.45 USD              0   -2460.45 USD    Reimbursement
    233.00 USD    4660.00 USD    4427.00 USD  Income:Donations
--------------------------------------------
   6245.18 USD   28083.62 USD   21838.44 USD


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-February/003413.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2015-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   23,423.62


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2015-February/003358.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2014-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   21,710.91


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2014-April/003328.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2013-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   11,038.84


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/2ECBD7AC-C21B-45DE-9D55-0A9D215AFF70%40beckweb.net.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4wn_gTKSVimXv1jwOgUC1UbnzQB8QJWSL9q43g9JWZUpg%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The future of the patron program

Robert Sandell-2
So it looks like to me that just shy of half of our donations each year is from the patron program.
Probably not a good idea to discontinue it in that case :)

/B

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
We talked about this in the project meeting today and one of the questions was to find out the actual numbers of donations and how much is from patrons.


Our cash balance at the end of 2016 was about $27,000: http://www.spi-inc.org/treasurer/reports/201612/#index49h4

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:17 PM Daniel Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 27.02.2017, at 23:56, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> it would be great if the Jenkins Board shares info a kind of the Jenkins budget stats for previous years. It is hard to estimate how much the program contributes compared to other sources (I'd guess it contributes **much**). So I am not sure we can afford canceling the Patron program taking the Jenkins infrastructure costs into account.

Below are excerpts of SPI treasurer reports. It looks to me like we're not depending on having the donations from the Patron program come in regularly. Note that we are also affiliated with FFIS in Germany, but AFAICT they have no public reports. It's probably not nearly that much, I assume low 4 digits.

I asked rtyler whether he could tell me the reason for the very high expenses last year (first item below), and he mentioned that major project expenses are GitHub, certificates, some stickers, and…:

[2017-02-28 23:25:02]  <rtyler> in 2016 I also put in a reimbursement for a few thousand worth of costs I hadn't bothered submitting for years

[2017-02-28 23:26:53]  <rtyler> our regular burn rate I think is probably less than 2k a year if we run cheap

----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-November/003598.html
Treasurer's report as of 2016-08 (the newest there currently is)

== Per project summaries 2016 year to date, ending 2016/09/01 ==

=== jenkins ===
         debit         credit          total
--------------------------------------------
             0   23423.62 USD   23423.62 USD  Equity:Opening Balance
   6012.18 USD              0   -6012.18 USD  Expenses
    158.85 USD              0    -158.85 USD    CPFee
   3392.88 USD              0   -3392.88 USD    Other
   2460.45 USD              0   -2460.45 USD    Reimbursement
    233.00 USD    4660.00 USD    4427.00 USD  Income:Donations
--------------------------------------------
   6245.18 USD   28083.62 USD   21838.44 USD


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-February/003413.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2015-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   23,423.62


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2015-February/003358.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2014-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   21,710.91


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2014-April/003328.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2013-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   11,038.84


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/2ECBD7AC-C21B-45DE-9D55-0A9D215AFF70%40beckweb.net.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4wn_gTKSVimXv1jwOgUC1UbnzQB8QJWSL9q43g9JWZUpg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
Robert Sandell
Software Engineer
CloudBees Inc.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CALzHZS09RLHm2r%2BKPgqy0KXVqSzR7HJ2XTELVG2JzMgbVK5Xwg%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: The future of the patron program

Oleg Nenashev
I agree. We likely need to do something though it requires contributor time in any case :(
Maybe somebody of patrons wants invest into it in order to get more visibility.

BR, Oleg

2017-03-02 11:17 GMT+01:00 Robert Sandell <[hidden email]>:
So it looks like to me that just shy of half of our donations each year is from the patron program.
Probably not a good idea to discontinue it in that case :)

/B

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
We talked about this in the project meeting today and one of the questions was to find out the actual numbers of donations and how much is from patrons.


Our cash balance at the end of 2016 was about $27,000: http://www.spi-inc.org/treasurer/reports/201612/#index49h4

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:17 PM Daniel Beck <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 27.02.2017, at 23:56, Oleg Nenashev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> it would be great if the Jenkins Board shares info a kind of the Jenkins budget stats for previous years. It is hard to estimate how much the program contributes compared to other sources (I'd guess it contributes **much**). So I am not sure we can afford canceling the Patron program taking the Jenkins infrastructure costs into account.

Below are excerpts of SPI treasurer reports. It looks to me like we're not depending on having the donations from the Patron program come in regularly. Note that we are also affiliated with FFIS in Germany, but AFAICT they have no public reports. It's probably not nearly that much, I assume low 4 digits.

I asked rtyler whether he could tell me the reason for the very high expenses last year (first item below), and he mentioned that major project expenses are GitHub, certificates, some stickers, and…:

[2017-02-28 23:25:02]  <rtyler> in 2016 I also put in a reimbursement for a few thousand worth of costs I hadn't bothered submitting for years

[2017-02-28 23:26:53]  <rtyler> our regular burn rate I think is probably less than 2k a year if we run cheap

----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-November/003598.html
Treasurer's report as of 2016-08 (the newest there currently is)

== Per project summaries 2016 year to date, ending 2016/09/01 ==

=== jenkins ===
         debit         credit          total
--------------------------------------------
             0   23423.62 USD   23423.62 USD  Equity:Opening Balance
   6012.18 USD              0   -6012.18 USD  Expenses
    158.85 USD              0    -158.85 USD    CPFee
   3392.88 USD              0   -3392.88 USD    Other
   2460.45 USD              0   -2460.45 USD    Reimbursement
    233.00 USD    4660.00 USD    4427.00 USD  Income:Donations
--------------------------------------------
   6245.18 USD   28083.62 USD   21838.44 USD


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2016-February/003413.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2015-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   23,423.62


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2015-February/003358.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2014-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   21,710.91


----


http://lists.spi-inc.org/pipermail/spi-general/2014-April/003328.html
Treasurer's Report as of 2013-12-31

Jenkins Earmark                   11,038.84


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/2ECBD7AC-C21B-45DE-9D55-0A9D215AFF70%40beckweb.net.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4wn_gTKSVimXv1jwOgUC1UbnzQB8QJWSL9q43g9JWZUpg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
Robert Sandell
Software Engineer
CloudBees Inc.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jenkinsci-dev/-FwdQ-nw7Mc/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CALzHZS09RLHm2r%2BKPgqy0KXVqSzR7HJ2XTELVG2JzMgbVK5Xwg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email].
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAPfivLDMy%3DPS5ppALrpyWagnVJPfU_aua7X-5Twx88GgdR%3DcWQ%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Loading...