Why CVS?

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Why CVS?

Vladimir Sizikov
Hi,

I was just wondering why Hudson sources under old, rusty and weak CVS
when much better alternative (Subversion) exists (and available for
java.net too)? :)

The biggest problem with CVS is that history of files is not preserved
when files are being moved/renamed. Consider the latest switch to
Maven, most sources have been moved and now almost all of them have
one or two revisions, making it hard to see the full development
history of the particular file (that's often needed when investigating
regressions).

Again, all the major IDEs support Subversion now, and there are
excellent stand-alone subversion tools, like TortoiseSVN, SmartSVN,
etc.

I must admit that I don't use CVS in my projects and have only enough
knowledge to commit some code to the repository, while I use
Subversion extensively and like the way it work, with ability to have
private branches and switch between main line (trunk) and personal
branches, so that it's easy to have multiple bugfixes in the works.

So, just in case, if there are any plans to reconsider source control
system for Hudson, I thought I'd give +1 to Subversion! :)

Thanks,
  --Vladimir

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Re: Why CVS?

Kohsuke Kawaguchi-2
Vladimir Sizikov wrote:
> I was just wondering why Hudson sources under old, rusty and weak CVS
> when much better alternative (Subversion) exists (and available for
> java.net too)? :)

It's mostly historical reason. When I started hudson on java.net, there
was no subversion offering on java.net.

And once a project is started with a SCM, you cannot really change it.
Either you craete a separate project just for hosting the source code
(confusing), or you delete the project and recreate it by using the same
name (losing all history, mail archive, issues, etc.) Neither of which
seems to be desirable.


--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Sun Microsystems                   [hidden email]

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Re: Why CVS?

Vladimir Sizikov
On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 10:49:41AM -0800, Kohsuke Kawaguchi wrote:

> Vladimir Sizikov wrote:
> >I was just wondering why Hudson sources under old, rusty and weak CVS
> >when much better alternative (Subversion) exists (and available for
> >java.net too)? :)
>
> It's mostly historical reason. When I started hudson on java.net, there
> was no subversion offering on java.net.
>
> And once a project is started with a SCM, you cannot really change it.
> Either you craete a separate project just for hosting the source code
> (confusing), or you delete the project and recreate it by using the same
> name (losing all history, mail archive, issues, etc.) Neither of which
> seems to be desirable.

Wow, that's really bad. I'm a bit surprised that there is no
transition offered by java.net from CVS to Subversion.

So it seems the only option is to live with CVS until the end of
time. :)

Thanks,
  --Vladimir

--
Vladimir Sizikov
Sun Microsystems                   [hidden email]

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Re: Why CVS?

jason marshall-2
In reply to this post by Kohsuke Kawaguchi-2
That's not entirely true.  The Subversion team was cognizant enough of
this problem that there are tools available to import a CVS repository
with version history.

The only problem I recollect with the tool is that it uses a
questionably directory layout.  Of course, Subversion supports
reorganizing and deleting directories from the repository, so this is
only a temporary problem.

Now, whether java.net allows you to switch repositories is another
issue entirely...

-Jason

On 12/7/06, Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Vladimir Sizikov wrote:
> > I was just wondering why Hudson sources under old, rusty and weak CVS
> > when much better alternative (Subversion) exists (and available for
> > java.net too)? :)
>
> It's mostly historical reason. When I started hudson on java.net, there
> was no subversion offering on java.net.
>
> And once a project is started with a SCM, you cannot really change it.
> Either you craete a separate project just for hosting the source code
> (confusing), or you delete the project and recreate it by using the same
> name (losing all history, mail archive, issues, etc.) Neither of which
> seems to be desirable.
>
>
> --
> Kohsuke Kawaguchi
> Sun Microsystems                   [hidden email]
>
>
>


--
- Jason

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Re: Why CVS?

Kohsuke Kawaguchi-2
jason marshall wrote:
> That's not entirely true.  The Subversion team was cognizant enough of
> this problem that there are tools available to import a CVS repository
> with version history.

Yep. That's not an issue.

> Now, whether java.net allows you to switch repositories is another
> issue entirely...

Exactly. That is the real problem. And they don't.

--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Sun Microsystems                   [hidden email]

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Re: Why CVS?

Demetrius Nunes
In reply to this post by jason marshall-2
I recently migrated a CVS repo to Subversion with no loss of history
whatsoever. We used a tool called cvs2svn I think.

jason marshall wrote:

> That's not entirely true.  The Subversion team was cognizant enough of
> this problem that there are tools available to import a CVS repository
> with version history.
>
> The only problem I recollect with the tool is that it uses a
> questionably directory layout.  Of course, Subversion supports
> reorganizing and deleting directories from the repository, so this is
> only a temporary problem.
>
> Now, whether java.net allows you to switch repositories is another
> issue entirely...
>
> -Jason
>
> On 12/7/06, Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Vladimir Sizikov wrote:
>> > I was just wondering why Hudson sources under old, rusty and weak CVS
>> > when much better alternative (Subversion) exists (and available for
>> > java.net too)? :)
>>
>> It's mostly historical reason. When I started hudson on java.net, there
>> was no subversion offering on java.net.
>>
>> And once a project is started with a SCM, you cannot really change it.
>> Either you craete a separate project just for hosting the source code
>> (confusing), or you delete the project and recreate it by using the same
>> name (losing all history, mail archive, issues, etc.) Neither of which
>> seems to be desirable.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kohsuke Kawaguchi
>> Sun Microsystems                   [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Demetrius Nunes
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InfoPAE - Desenvolvimento
[hidden email]
Tel: (55 21) 2512-8428 - ramal 208
Cel: (55 21) 8229-1261

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Re: Why CVS?

Sven Reimers
In reply to this post by Kohsuke Kawaguchi-2
Indeed they do offer support, only you have to pay for it if you want
a migration (at least for projects outside of sun??). If can live with
a mostly clean restart, you can just say go for it.

The details I found are here
https://java-net.dev.java.net/servlets/ProjectForumMessageView?messageID=13175&forumID=978

Maybe Kohsuke can find a way to get this done ;-)

-Sven

On 12/7/06, Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> jason marshall wrote:
> > That's not entirely true.  The Subversion team was cognizant enough of
> > this problem that there are tools available to import a CVS repository
> > with version history.
>
> Yep. That's not an issue.
>
> > Now, whether java.net allows you to switch repositories is another
> > issue entirely...
>
> Exactly. That is the real problem. And they don't.
>
> --
> Kohsuke Kawaguchi
> Sun Microsystems                   [hidden email]
>
>
>

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