hudson.java.net is alive

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hudson.java.net is alive

Sue Duncan
I'm pleased to announce that  http://hudson.java.net is alive and
running on the new infrastructure. The migration is not fully complete
(see details below) but the team has worked to get this far prior to
the beginning of the holiday in order to minimize the disruption

- The existing http://hudson.dev.java.net will be redirected to
http://hudson.java.net.  The new page doesn't have any customizations
applied to it yet so what you will see is the default L&F.  We'll be
addressing this in the next week or so.

- Only the source code repository and mailing lists are enabled.  The
mailing lists only have project admin subscribed.  The archives and
the subscriptions will be added in the next few days.  The existing
mailing list aliases will be redirected to the new mailing list
archives

Until mailing is fully enabled you will not receive commit
notifications. However, you can browse the commits archive

- JIRA and downloads will be enabled as we continue through the
migration of these projects.  The scheduled end date is 12/3

Please let us know if you have any questions or comments.

Happy Thanksgiving Holiday (for those of you in the USA)

Susan
Oracle Product Management
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Jason Dillon
Almost every link under "Project Features" goes to a page stating The file <page> appears to be missing. To add content to your website, use webdavs.

"Project Links" at least go somewhere... otherwise the hudson.java.net site is mostly useless.

--jason


On Nov 24, 2010, at 3:47 PM, Susan Duncan - Oracle wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce that  http://hudson.java.net is alive and
> running on the new infrastructure. The migration is not fully complete
> (see details below) but the team has worked to get this far prior to
> the beginning of the holiday in order to minimize the disruption
>
> - The existing http://hudson.dev.java.net will be redirected to
> http://hudson.java.net.  The new page doesn't have any customizations
> applied to it yet so what you will see is the default L&F.  We'll be
> addressing this in the next week or so.
>
> - Only the source code repository and mailing lists are enabled.  The
> mailing lists only have project admin subscribed.  The archives and
> the subscriptions will be added in the next few days.  The existing
> mailing list aliases will be redirected to the new mailing list
> archives
>
> Until mailing is fully enabled you will not receive commit
> notifications. However, you can browse the commits archive
>
> - JIRA and downloads will be enabled as we continue through the
> migration of these projects.  The scheduled end date is 12/3
>
> Please let us know if you have any questions or comments.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving Holiday (for those of you in the USA)
>
> Susan
> Oracle Product Management

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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Maxim Veksler
I'm getting 


The file /web/projects/hudson/index.html appears to be missing.

To add content to your website, use webdavs.


On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Almost every link under "Project Features" goes to a page stating The file <page> appears to be missing. To add content to your website, use webdavs.

"Project Links" at least go somewhere... otherwise the hudson.java.net site is mostly useless.

--jason


On Nov 24, 2010, at 3:47 PM, Susan Duncan - Oracle wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce that  http://hudson.java.net is alive and
> running on the new infrastructure. The migration is not fully complete
> (see details below) but the team has worked to get this far prior to
> the beginning of the holiday in order to minimize the disruption
>
> - The existing http://hudson.dev.java.net will be redirected to
> http://hudson.java.net.  The new page doesn't have any customizations
> applied to it yet so what you will see is the default L&F.  We'll be
> addressing this in the next week or so.
>
> - Only the source code repository and mailing lists are enabled.  The
> mailing lists only have project admin subscribed.  The archives and
> the subscriptions will be added in the next few days.  The existing
> mailing list aliases will be redirected to the new mailing list
> archives
>
> Until mailing is fully enabled you will not receive commit
> notifications. However, you can browse the commits archive
>
> - JIRA and downloads will be enabled as we continue through the
> migration of these projects.  The scheduled end date is 12/3
>
> Please let us know if you have any questions or comments.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving Holiday (for those of you in the USA)
>
> Susan
> Oracle Product Management


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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Sue Duncan
Seems that we had a gremlin over night - but all is well now. Bear in
mind that some areas (as specified in my original post) will not be
fully functional until next week. Our first aim was to get the
repository up again as soon as possible
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Mirko Friedenhagen-3
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Susan Duncan - Oracle
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Seems that we had a gremlin over night - but all is well now. Bear in
> mind that some areas (as specified in my original post) will not be
> fully functional until next week. Our first aim was to get the
> repository up again as soon as possible

Hello Susan,

I do not see any messages in the list archives except of one test message.

Regards
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Administrator
The archives are available at
http://hudson.361315.n4.nabble.com/Hudson-f361315.subapps.html

2010/11/25 Mirko Friedenhagen <[hidden email]>:

> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Susan Duncan - Oracle
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Seems that we had a gremlin over night - but all is well now. Bear in
>> mind that some areas (as specified in my original post) will not be
>> fully functional until next week. Our first aim was to get the
>> repository up again as soon as possible
>
> Hello Susan,
>
> I do not see any messages in the list archives except of one test message.
>
> Regards
>



--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Sue Duncan
Mailing is not fully migrated yet - that will come early next week

rgds

Susan
Oracle Product Management
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

jieryn
Community,

Elephant in the room: Are we going to deprecate the java.net site and
mailing lists and all the other features? What services are still
utilized on java.net, now? I think none, as the "important" pieces of
our infrastructure are donated to the community by Atlassian, GitHub,
and Google Groups.

I can only see confusion for our users by having these competing resources.

-Jesse

--
There are 10 types of people in this world, those
that can read binary and those that can not.
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Andrew Bayer
Given the overwhelming support for moving to GitHub, I think we're at the point where the java.net infrastructure doesn't play much of a role - it still powers the backend authentication for JIRA, and it's currently still our Maven repository, but I've done some preliminary work on switching authentication over to our own LDAP server, and setting up our own Maven repository. But before those changes can be made, we do need to resolve the current situation - the community consensus definitely is to move to GitHub, and the Google Groups mailing lists are functional and getting real traffic. I believe we should deprecate the java.net site/infrastructure and make that clear ASAP.

A.

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Jesse Farinacci <[hidden email]> wrote:
Community,

Elephant in the room: Are we going to deprecate the java.net site and
mailing lists and all the other features? What services are still
utilized on java.net, now? I think none, as the "important" pieces of
our infrastructure are donated to the community by Atlassian, GitHub,
and Google Groups.

I can only see confusion for our users by having these competing resources.

-Jesse

--
There are 10 types of people in this world, those
that can read binary and those that can not.

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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Andrew Bayer
(adding the java.net mailing lists to make sure we hit all audiences with this)

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Given the overwhelming support for moving to GitHub, I think we're at the point where the java.net infrastructure doesn't play much of a role - it still powers the backend authentication for JIRA, and it's currently still our Maven repository, but I've done some preliminary work on switching authentication over to our own LDAP server, and setting up our own Maven repository. But before those changes can be made, we do need to resolve the current situation - the community consensus definitely is to move to GitHub, and the Google Groups mailing lists are functional and getting real traffic. I believe we should deprecate the java.net site/infrastructure and make that clear ASAP.

A.


On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Jesse Farinacci <[hidden email]> wrote:
Community,

Elephant in the room: Are we going to deprecate the java.net site and
mailing lists and all the other features? What services are still
utilized on java.net, now? I think none, as the "important" pieces of
our infrastructure are donated to the community by Atlassian, GitHub,
and Google Groups.

I can only see confusion for our users by having these competing resources.

-Jesse

--
There are 10 types of people in this world, those
that can read binary and those that can not.


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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Nigel Magnay
In reply to this post by Andrew Bayer
If you've got the h/w to self-host, that'd be the best route. It's not like it's the 1st time java.net has been unstable..

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Given the overwhelming support for moving to GitHub, I think we're at the point where the java.net infrastructure doesn't play much of a role - it still powers the backend authentication for JIRA, and it's currently still our Maven repository, but I've done some preliminary work on switching authentication over to our own LDAP server, and setting up our own Maven repository. But before those changes can be made, we do need to resolve the current situation - the community consensus definitely is to move to GitHub, and the Google Groups mailing lists are functional and getting real traffic. I believe we should deprecate the java.net site/infrastructure and make that clear ASAP.

A.


On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Jesse Farinacci <[hidden email]> wrote:
Community,

Elephant in the room: Are we going to deprecate the java.net site and
mailing lists and all the other features? What services are still
utilized on java.net, now? I think none, as the "important" pieces of
our infrastructure are donated to the community by Atlassian, GitHub,
and Google Groups.

I can only see confusion for our users by having these competing resources.

-Jesse

--
There are 10 types of people in this world, those
that can read binary and those that can not.


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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Rob Petti-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Bayer
I would also feel much better with the project drivers having more
control over
the infrastructure, since it seems like we were yanked offline without
any warning or
consultation. There was a plan in the works for dealing with the
migration, but Oracle
jumped the gun, it seems.

With git, at least we can continue work relatively unimpeded in the
unlikely event that
github goes down, and google groups seems like a vast improvement over
the old mailing
list.

I also vote for deprecating java.net.

On Nov 26, 11:34 am, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (adding the java.net mailing lists to make sure we hit all audiences with
> this)
>
> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Given the overwhelming support for moving to GitHub, I think we're at the
> > point where the java.net infrastructure doesn't play much of a role - it
> > still powers the backend authentication for JIRA, and it's currently still
> > our Maven repository, but I've done some preliminary work on switching
> > authentication over to our own LDAP server, and setting up our own Maven
> > repository. But before those changes can be made, we do need to resolve the
> > current situation - the community consensus definitely is to move to GitHub,
> > and the Google Groups mailing lists are functional and getting real traffic.
> > I believe we should deprecate the java.net site/infrastructure and make
> > that clear ASAP.
>
> > A.
>
> > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Jesse Farinacci <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >> Community,
>
> >> Elephant in the room: Are we going to deprecate the java.net site and
> >> mailing lists and all the other features? What services are still
> >> utilized on java.net, now? I think none, as the "important" pieces of
> >> our infrastructure are donated to the community by Atlassian, GitHub,
> >> and Google Groups.
>
> >> I can only see confusion for our users by having these competing
> >> resources.
>
> >> -Jesse
>
> >> --
> >> There are 10 types of people in this world, those
> >> that can read binary and those that can not.
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Administrator
And I really like the aspect of Git that enables other people to
contribute changes with very low overhead.
We are already seeing some of those happening in the context of
localization in just within the past few days.

For example, many contributers in the Japanese community hesitate to
ask for a commit access, for one reason or another,
but they can fork and push changes and send me e-mail all right.

2010/11/26 Rob Petti <[hidden email]>:

> I would also feel much better with the project drivers having more
> control over
> the infrastructure, since it seems like we were yanked offline without
> any warning or
> consultation. There was a plan in the works for dealing with the
> migration, but Oracle
> jumped the gun, it seems.
>
> With git, at least we can continue work relatively unimpeded in the
> unlikely event that
> github goes down, and google groups seems like a vast improvement over
> the old mailing
> list.
>
> I also vote for deprecating java.net.
>
> On Nov 26, 11:34 am, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> (adding the java.net mailing lists to make sure we hit all audiences with
>> this)
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Given the overwhelming support for moving to GitHub, I think we're at the
>> > point where the java.net infrastructure doesn't play much of a role - it
>> > still powers the backend authentication for JIRA, and it's currently still
>> > our Maven repository, but I've done some preliminary work on switching
>> > authentication over to our own LDAP server, and setting up our own Maven
>> > repository. But before those changes can be made, we do need to resolve the
>> > current situation - the community consensus definitely is to move to GitHub,
>> > and the Google Groups mailing lists are functional and getting real traffic.
>> > I believe we should deprecate the java.net site/infrastructure and make
>> > that clear ASAP.
>>
>> > A.
>>
>> > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Jesse Farinacci <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> >> Community,
>>
>> >> Elephant in the room: Are we going to deprecate the java.net site and
>> >> mailing lists and all the other features? What services are still
>> >> utilized on java.net, now? I think none, as the "important" pieces of
>> >> our infrastructure are donated to the community by Atlassian, GitHub,
>> >> and Google Groups.
>>
>> >> I can only see confusion for our users by having these competing
>> >> resources.
>>
>> >> -Jesse
>>
>> >> --
>> >> There are 10 types of people in this world, those
>> >> that can read binary and those that can not.
>



--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

R. Tyler Croy
In reply to this post by Nigel Magnay

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010, Nigel Magnay wrote:

> If you've got the h/w to self-host, that'd be the best route. It's not like
> it's the 1st time java.net has been unstable..

Just to throw this out there, we do have some hardware colocated with Contegix
[0] right now that hosts the hudson-labs infrastructure which has enough
headroom to host JIRA, Gerrit, Nexus, LDAP, etc.

The only real downside of it has been the cost (~$60/month for hosting, we own
the machine) which abayer and I have been footing.


[0] http://www.contegix.com


- R. Tyler Croy
--------------------------------------
  GitHub: http://github.com/rtyler
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/agentdero


attachment0 (205 bytes) Download Attachment
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Administrator
The plan was to solicit a donation, and you can definitely count me in on that.

2010/11/26 R. Tyler Croy <[hidden email]>:

>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010, Nigel Magnay wrote:
>
>> If you've got the h/w to self-host, that'd be the best route. It's not like
>> it's the 1st time java.net has been unstable..
>
> Just to throw this out there, we do have some hardware colocated with Contegix
> [0] right now that hosts the hudson-labs infrastructure which has enough
> headroom to host JIRA, Gerrit, Nexus, LDAP, etc.
>
> The only real downside of it has been the cost (~$60/month for hosting, we own
> the machine) which abayer and I have been footing.
>
>
> [0] http://www.contegix.com
>
>
> - R. Tyler Croy
> --------------------------------------
>  GitHub: http://github.com/rtyler
>  Twitter: http://twitter.com/agentdero
>
>



--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Jacob Robertson
In regards to SVN I'm a little confused on either the timeline or the
layout of the infrastructure.  This morning, get a I get a 302 for
both

https://hudson.dev.java.net/svn/hudson/trunk/hudson/plugins

and

https://hudson.java.net/svn/hudson/trunk/hudson/plugins

when trying to browse through Eclipse.

I have some code I've been wanting to commit for a number of days now... :(
ted
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

ted
In reply to this post by Kohsuke Kawaguchi

I think this thread is a bit out of control.  Oracle has been talking
to a lot of the users of hudson who are not part of this very small
core group on the forums.  Susan's job is to represent them until they
feel the urge to reply directly to the mailing lists or forums.  One
of their biggest complaints is the lack of formal solicitation of
comments/requirements before changes like this are made, and a lot of
frustration around the inability to get their changed requests into
the core of hudson.

Oracle's goal is to grow the community and make hudson stronger.  You
all might not be aware of this, but the actual hudson user base is
very large.  Much bigger than what you see on the mailing lists or in
the forums.  The unfortunate part of that is how many of these users
do not contribute to the core, and do not participate in these
discussions.  They want to do that, but don't feel like they can be
heard.  We want them to be heard.  We need to make the hudson
community a place that will welcome all the hudson users and encourage
its growth and longevity.  We will be announcing some changes in the
upcoming weeks that we believe will foster that.

For now, however, we are going to stay on the java.net
infrastructure.  We believe it is important for hudson to stay
connected with the rest of the the java community, as well as take
advantage of some of the cool changes we will have coming to
java.net.  Moving to GIT can be done while staying on java.net.  It is
not a requirement to move to github.   Another big complaint that we
have heard from many of the projects on java.net is that the old/
current java.net infrastructure has been unstable and cannot support
the types of things that some of the projects want to do.  This move
onto the kenai infrastructure will allow us to add many more of those
capabilities and have this hosted by one of the biggest IT
organizations in the world who are use to guaranteeing up time and
reliability.

We can't stop some of you from writing the "Oracle is evil" posts, but
I think in the case of java.net, open source and especially hudson
that is an unfair and unsubstantiated characterization.  We really
like hudson.  We like it being free.  We want the community of
contributors to grow to the hundreds.  We want the community of users
to grow to the tens of thousands.  And we would like it to have a
license where anyone can use it as they like.  This is about trying to
create an environment where it can grow as a healthy open source
community.

Because it is open source, we can't stop anybody from forking it.  We
do however own the trademark to the name so you cannot use the name
outside of the core community.  We acquired that as part of Sun.  We
hope that everyone working on hudson today will do as they claim to
want, and work with us to make hudson stronger.  Susan, Winston or I
are always willing to have a constructive conversation about how to
make things better.  We have done that with dozens of hudson users not
represented on this list, and you will start to see them taking a more
active part in the weeks and months ahead.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused by our moving the hudson
project to the new java.net.  We sent out an email to all of the
projects (including hudson) warning them of this change and all of
them except hudson had planned for it.  As KK pointed out in his
email, he somehow missed the heads-up email our IT department sent
him.  Our goal, as a community, should be working together to get
things back running normally on the new java.net infrastructure.  We
are making good progress on that and Susan will be posted more
information about that later today.

thanks for your support and feedback and I hope it continues.

    -ted

Ted Farrell







ted
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

ted
I notice that my full profile was not added to my reply.  A lot of you
know who I am, but for those who don't, I am Ted Farrell.  I am the
chief architect for tools and middleware at oracle and lead the
development team supporting hudson that susan and winston are part
of.  My email is [hidden email].  thx.

On Nov 29, 9:17 am, ted <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think this thread is a bit out of control.  Oracle has been talking
> to a lot of the users of hudson who are not part of this very small
> core group on the forums.  Susan's job is to represent them until they
> feel the urge to reply directly to the mailing lists or forums.  One
> of their biggest complaints is the lack of formal solicitation of
> comments/requirements before changes like this are made, and a lot of
> frustration around the inability to get their changed requests into
> the core of hudson.
>
> Oracle's goal is to grow the community and make hudson stronger.  You
> all might not be aware of this, but the actual hudson user base is
> very large.  Much bigger than what you see on the mailing lists or in
> the forums.  The unfortunate part of that is how many of these users
> do not contribute to the core, and do not participate in these
> discussions.  They want to do that, but don't feel like they can be
> heard.  We want them to be heard.  We need to make the hudson
> community a place that will welcome all the hudson users and encourage
> its growth and longevity.  We will be announcing some changes in the
> upcoming weeks that we believe will foster that.
>
> For now, however, we are going to stay on the java.net
> infrastructure.  We believe it is important for hudson to stay
> connected with the rest of the the java community, as well as take
> advantage of some of the cool changes we will have coming to
> java.net.  Moving to GIT can be done while staying on java.net.  It is
> not a requirement to move to github.   Another big complaint that we
> have heard from many of the projects on java.net is that the old/
> current java.net infrastructure has been unstable and cannot support
> the types of things that some of the projects want to do.  This move
> onto the kenai infrastructure will allow us to add many more of those
> capabilities and have this hosted by one of the biggest IT
> organizations in the world who are use to guaranteeing up time and
> reliability.
>
> We can't stop some of you from writing the "Oracle is evil" posts, but
> I think in the case of java.net, open source and especially hudson
> that is an unfair and unsubstantiated characterization.  We really
> like hudson.  We like it being free.  We want the community of
> contributors to grow to the hundreds.  We want the community of users
> to grow to the tens of thousands.  And we would like it to have a
> license where anyone can use it as they like.  This is about trying to
> create an environment where it can grow as a healthy open source
> community.
>
> Because it is open source, we can't stop anybody from forking it.  We
> do however own the trademark to the name so you cannot use the name
> outside of the core community.  We acquired that as part of Sun.  We
> hope that everyone working on hudson today will do as they claim to
> want, and work with us to make hudson stronger.  Susan, Winston or I
> are always willing to have a constructive conversation about how to
> make things better.  We have done that with dozens of hudson users not
> represented on this list, and you will start to see them taking a more
> active part in the weeks and months ahead.
>
> I am sorry for the inconvenience caused by our moving the hudson
> project to the new java.net.  We sent out an email to all of the
> projects (including hudson) warning them of this change and all of
> them except hudson had planned for it.  As KK pointed out in his
> email, he somehow missed the heads-up email our IT department sent
> him.  Our goal, as a community, should be working together to get
> things back running normally on the new java.net infrastructure.  We
> are making good progress on that and Susan will be posted more
> information about that later today.
>
> thanks for your support and feedback and I hope it continues.
>
>     -ted
>
> Ted Farrell
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

Andrew Bayer
Ted et al -

I'll reply in more detail shortly, but I just wanted to ask why the obvious development community support and enthusiasm for moving to GitHub is not relevant - I understand that there are plenty of Hudson *users* not on the mailing lists, as one would expect, but Hudson's *developers* are on the list, so it's their opinions we've been hearing.

A.

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:28 AM, ted <[hidden email]> wrote:
I notice that my full profile was not added to my reply.  A lot of you
know who I am, but for those who don't, I am Ted Farrell.  I am the
chief architect for tools and middleware at oracle and lead the
development team supporting hudson that susan and winston are part
of.  My email is [hidden email].  thx.

On Nov 29, 9:17 am, ted <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think this thread is a bit out of control.  Oracle has been talking
> to a lot of the users of hudson who are not part of this very small
> core group on the forums.  Susan's job is to represent them until they
> feel the urge to reply directly to the mailing lists or forums.  One
> of their biggest complaints is the lack of formal solicitation of
> comments/requirements before changes like this are made, and a lot of
> frustration around the inability to get their changed requests into
> the core of hudson.
>
> Oracle's goal is to grow the community and make hudson stronger.  You
> all might not be aware of this, but the actual hudson user base is
> very large.  Much bigger than what you see on the mailing lists or in
> the forums.  The unfortunate part of that is how many of these users
> do not contribute to the core, and do not participate in these
> discussions.  They want to do that, but don't feel like they can be
> heard.  We want them to be heard.  We need to make the hudson
> community a place that will welcome all the hudson users and encourage
> its growth and longevity.  We will be announcing some changes in the
> upcoming weeks that we believe will foster that.
>
> For now, however, we are going to stay on the java.net
> infrastructure.  We believe it is important for hudson to stay
> connected with the rest of the the java community, as well as take
> advantage of some of the cool changes we will have coming to
> java.net.  Moving to GIT can be done while staying on java.net.  It is
> not a requirement to move to github.   Another big complaint that we
> have heard from many of the projects on java.net is that the old/
> current java.net infrastructure has been unstable and cannot support
> the types of things that some of the projects want to do.  This move
> onto the kenai infrastructure will allow us to add many more of those
> capabilities and have this hosted by one of the biggest IT
> organizations in the world who are use to guaranteeing up time and
> reliability.
>
> We can't stop some of you from writing the "Oracle is evil" posts, but
> I think in the case of java.net, open source and especially hudson
> that is an unfair and unsubstantiated characterization.  We really
> like hudson.  We like it being free.  We want the community of
> contributors to grow to the hundreds.  We want the community of users
> to grow to the tens of thousands.  And we would like it to have a
> license where anyone can use it as they like.  This is about trying to
> create an environment where it can grow as a healthy open source
> community.
>
> Because it is open source, we can't stop anybody from forking it.  We
> do however own the trademark to the name so you cannot use the name
> outside of the core community.  We acquired that as part of Sun.  We
> hope that everyone working on hudson today will do as they claim to
> want, and work with us to make hudson stronger.  Susan, Winston or I
> are always willing to have a constructive conversation about how to
> make things better.  We have done that with dozens of hudson users not
> represented on this list, and you will start to see them taking a more
> active part in the weeks and months ahead.
>
> I am sorry for the inconvenience caused by our moving the hudson
> project to the new java.net.  We sent out an email to all of the
> projects (including hudson) warning them of this change and all of
> them except hudson had planned for it.  As KK pointed out in his
> email, he somehow missed the heads-up email our IT department sent
> him.  Our goal, as a community, should be working together to get
> things back running normally on the new java.net infrastructure.  We
> are making good progress on that and Susan will be posted more
> information about that later today.
>
> thanks for your support and feedback and I hope it continues.
>
>     -ted
>
> Ted Farrell

ted
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Re: hudson.java.net is alive

ted

Hi Andrew.  One of the features of the kenai software that is support
for git.  I'd be interested in why we could not decide as a community
to move to git and stay on java.net in doing so.  Is there something
specific that you would not be getting?  If so, I think we can look at
adding any missing functionality to the platform.

   -ted

On Nov 29, 9:32 am, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ted et al -
>
> I'll reply in more detail shortly, but I just wanted to ask why the obvious
> development community support and enthusiasm for moving to GitHub is not
> relevant - I understand that there are plenty of Hudson *users* not on the
> mailing lists, as one would expect, but Hudson's *developers* are on the
> list, so it's their opinions we've been hearing.
>
> A.
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:28 AM, ted <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I notice that my full profile was not added to my reply.  A lot of you
> > know who I am, but for those who don't, I am Ted Farrell.  I am the
> > chief architect for tools and middleware at oracle and lead the
> > development team supporting hudson that susan and winston are part
> > of.  My email is [hidden email].  thx.
>
> > On Nov 29, 9:17 am, ted <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I think this thread is a bit out of control.  Oracle has been talking
> > > to a lot of the users of hudson who are not part of this very small
> > > core group on the forums.  Susan's job is to represent them until they
> > > feel the urge to reply directly to the mailing lists or forums.  One
> > > of their biggest complaints is the lack of formal solicitation of
> > > comments/requirements before changes like this are made, and a lot of
> > > frustration around the inability to get their changed requests into
> > > the core of hudson.
>
> > > Oracle's goal is to grow the community and make hudson stronger.  You
> > > all might not be aware of this, but the actual hudson user base is
> > > very large.  Much bigger than what you see on the mailing lists or in
> > > the forums.  The unfortunate part of that is how many of these users
> > > do not contribute to the core, and do not participate in these
> > > discussions.  They want to do that, but don't feel like they can be
> > > heard.  We want them to be heard.  We need to make the hudson
> > > community a place that will welcome all the hudson users and encourage
> > > its growth and longevity.  We will be announcing some changes in the
> > > upcoming weeks that we believe will foster that.
>
> > > For now, however, we are going to stay on the java.net
> > > infrastructure.  We believe it is important for hudson to stay
> > > connected with the rest of the the java community, as well as take
> > > advantage of some of the cool changes we will have coming to
> > > java.net.  Moving to GIT can be done while staying on java.net.  It is
> > > not a requirement to move to github.   Another big complaint that we
> > > have heard from many of the projects on java.net is that the old/
> > > current java.net infrastructure has been unstable and cannot support
> > > the types of things that some of the projects want to do.  This move
> > > onto the kenai infrastructure will allow us to add many more of those
> > > capabilities and have this hosted by one of the biggest IT
> > > organizations in the world who are use to guaranteeing up time and
> > > reliability.
>
> > > We can't stop some of you from writing the "Oracle is evil" posts, but
> > > I think in the case of java.net, open source and especially hudson
> > > that is an unfair and unsubstantiated characterization.  We really
> > > like hudson.  We like it being free.  We want the community of
> > > contributors to grow to the hundreds.  We want the community of users
> > > to grow to the tens of thousands.  And we would like it to have a
> > > license where anyone can use it as they like.  This is about trying to
> > > create an environment where it can grow as a healthy open source
> > > community.
>
> > > Because it is open source, we can't stop anybody from forking it.  We
> > > do however own the trademark to the name so you cannot use the name
> > > outside of the core community.  We acquired that as part of Sun.  We
> > > hope that everyone working on hudson today will do as they claim to
> > > want, and work with us to make hudson stronger.  Susan, Winston or I
> > > are always willing to have a constructive conversation about how to
> > > make things better.  We have done that with dozens of hudson users not
> > > represented on this list, and you will start to see them taking a more
> > > active part in the weeks and months ahead.
>
> > > I am sorry for the inconvenience caused by our moving the hudson
> > > project to the new java.net.  We sent out an email to all of the
> > > projects (including hudson) warning them of this change and all of
> > > them except hudson had planned for it.  As KK pointed out in his
> > > email, he somehow missed the heads-up email our IT department sent
> > > him.  Our goal, as a community, should be working together to get
> > > things back running normally on the new java.net infrastructure.  We
> > > are making good progress on that and Susan will be posted more
> > > information about that later today.
>
> > > thanks for your support and feedback and I hope it continues.
>
> > >     -ted
>
> > > Ted Farrell
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